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Peter, I appreciate your candor. It is very refreshing. And I will speak very candidly to you, as well: First of all, my friend, I apologize if any of my replies offended you or seemed to you to be aggressive and/or attacking in any way. I can assure you that there is no 'bad blood' or 'unpleasantness' felt by me towards you. I hope your feelings towards me are the same. In point of fact, I actually DO GENUINELY APPRECIATE your responses. Which, BTW, are longest, most detailed of what I've seen here in this forum. Also, I should tell you that I do honestly contemplate all suggestions given me. In fact, I must say, that I went back through the piece and looked at your suggestion of suspension and resolution to a minor and I like it a lot. Not for that particular last C chord, but somewhere else, it would be perfect. I can already hear it. So, THANK YOU FOR THAT, Peter. And, being completely candid with you, may I offer a suggestion about giving feedback to composers (in general)? For the most part, the theory, the rules, the technicalities of a piece is of secondary importance to the true composer. The Real Hardcore Composer cares first and foremost about the way in which the piece effects people inside. They care about how it effects person internal subjective experience, what moods it creates, what sensations, what memories and internal images it evokes. So, before you go in the the technical analysis of their music, tell them how it effects you, emotionally, deep inside. Does it make you happy? Does it make you sad? Does it make you hungry? Does it remind you of being on a beach? Does it remind you of nighttime in the city? Does it make you think about a girl you once knew?..............Whatever it may be, tell them that first. then, go through the technical analysis of the music (which, I give you credit, you are very good at). How this comment is receive with the same loving spirit with which it was given. All and all, Peter, I like you. I really do. And Your Music too. Keep up the work and let us both continue to post and correspond with each other. I find it really engaging. regards, J. Glenn Wright

In our century, we have behind us a lot of music for your reference: Baroque music ... medioeval music ... classicism, romanticism .... impressionism .... neoclassicism ... serialism .... We can not learn and know all this. We have to make choices. First you must learn the basics of composition (bass harmonies, choral harmonizzation exercises ..). We must look at a lot of music of our past and our present ... But then it's up to us allows choosing which language to use ... There are young composers who choose languages of the past, and others seeking to experiment with new...

Here, Peter. Per your request for help, I sat down and a verse and a chorus. Its kinda hard without either being in or knowing specifically about the fraternity to write decent lyrics. But, I had about 10 minutes to kill, so I figured I sketch a little something out that might work. So Here YOU GO: [Verse] Kappa Kappa Psi with our allegiance, we pledge to try with a spirit of passion, to lead our fellow men of music, with 'Excellence' our Creed. In perfection we take pride, Standing side by side, we are a band of brothers, now- O, Mu Tau!! [Chorus] We'll strive for the highest- Strive for the highest- Now and wherever we may go We'll Strive for the highest- Strive for the highest- for as long as music, we make We raise our song up to the sky O brothers, whatever fate may allow We will remain Kappa Kappa Psi- Mu Tau! :P

Seems like common sense to just "write what you want to write..." Seems like common sense that people might accept that you "write what you want to write..." Seems like common sense that people would be willing to hear "what you want to write..." ... Academics out there, please explain what's unacceptable about wanting to learn how to "write what you want to write..." or to expect to learn how to write what you want to write at a school, of all places, even if it happens to lean toward popular music or something else that isn't "modern." Why redirect anyone to write music they do not want to write? For everyone else, yes, we are all free to write whatever we want to write. It's no one's place to sit in judgment of others or to expect anyone to do something they don't want to do... which includes not wanting to listen to and/or write in a "modernist" epoch. So, comments about "challenging yourself" and so forth, well, I'm not the first to say I've listened to many modern works and NOT enjoyed them. How about NOT imposing your views on others if you don't want others to impose their views on you.

Lies, you can. I have, and tons of other composers I know have also. It takes a while and it's hard work, yes, but it's possible. Don't be lazy, please. I wouldn't say any of that are "basics" to composition any more than serialism or gregorian chants are. That's a typical mistake really. There's no "basis" in art, there's only a learning process by which you assimilate different aesthetic choices. I hardly think that young people choose a language any more than they are simply picking what is most familiar to them. That's fine at the start, since everyone has to start somewhere. It stops being an excuse as time goes by though and just becomes another form of laziness and spawns statements like yours above saying you can't possibly know art history and practices. Comfort generates laziness. Speaking of which. I'm willing to bet ABC is something that passes off as theory (counterpoint, style copies, etc) so obviously it has nothing to do with what you're expected to compose. College/universities SHOULD push people to write in styles they don't like, deal with things they're not comfortable with and in general shake people up. Because, really, that's how you learn anything. If the point of going to an university is just masturbating harder over what you already do and what is already comfortable, then why go? And, really now, you can write still whatever you want in college/universities outside of classes/etc, nobody is forcing you to stop writing any kind of music. Just that obviously if a student comes up with some Bach copy it's not going to go to a concert for the composition class, it shouldn't either and it might as well be viewed as a theory exercise. The teachers can obviously talk about it and critique it, but for it to be an exercise in creativity to the same degree as it is working with actual freedom, it takes an extremely competent grasp of the music language. So I'm starting to think AA's situation has more to do with him rather than bad teachers.

Come on, man. I can see why you hate academia: you rely on anecdotes to bolster your weak point. This is a pedestrian error in argumentation.

I never once experienced this. I had pretty much free reign over what I learned and was chastized for my lack of fundamentals time and time again. My main theory prof was equally versed in all western art music -- it was pretty intense. I was forced to learn pop and art as if it were one. I learned jazz right after computer music. My comp professor endured some horrible stuff, exploring whatever I had listened to that week, whether it be crappy funk or Gordon Mumma. What the hell classes did you take? What exactly was XYZ and ABC? Like... for real. I have never seen a professor across all the classes in all the departments act in this way. Unless you're talking about freshman and part of sophomore year, where it was simply a survey course, and the point is to not get too in depth and expose rather than hone.

From real conversations I have had with real professors: Student: I want to learn how to write ABC. Teacher: Sure, well you can learn how to write that, but have you heard xyz? S: Yeah, I just really like ABC. T: Do you know any xyz? S: Of course, I took theory and heard a lot of xyz. I would rather write ABC. T: Well, maybe you just haven't listened to enough xyz. S: I really just want to learn more about ABC first. T: I can't help you learn more about ABC. S: ...? Why? T: Let's just say they don't teach you how to write ABC in doctoral studies. S: I'm an undergrad. T: Good. You have plenty of time to learn it on your own then. S: ... T: ... S: ...! T: So, what would you like to write? S: ...?! >:/ Had this conversation far too many times. It's disgraceful. Don't even bother with this "open mind" garbage. Your choice of aesthetic was at least offered to you in college. AA

I am writing what I think sounds good/cool to me. I didn't think I needed to qualify that really - I thought that was pretty much known knowledge about me. I've thrown away, deleted, and rewrote so many works of mine.... just due to my own displeasure with the way they sound. Doesn't everyone?