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Many classic forms were adapted in the 20th century. New ones were invented. Messiaen's musical world is amazing. Check what intervals are the best for him to build a cadence! Regarding the sonata, he says: "having written some absolutely regular sonata-allegros, we shall state that one thing in that form has become obsolete: the recapitulation. Then we shall try once more to keep what is most essential: the development. there are two in a sonata-allegro: the middle, modulating development; the terminal development, generally built over understood dominant and tonic pedals. We shall be able to write pieces made of this terminal development alone". And he gives this example from les Enfants de Dieu (from la Nativité du Seigneur): First element over a dominant pedal in B major and development A great fortissimo cry upon a sort of schema with augmentation of the theme A tender phrase, forming the conclusion, established over a tonic pedal in B major. You can hear this part here: In his writings, he gives additional examples of this kind of technique and new "free forms proceeding from the development of the sonata-allegro". Some thoughts about all this: Having in mind that tonality in Messiaen cannot be understood in strictly classic ways, he uses a contemporary technique (as Debussy did) to establish tonal centers and a relationship between them: the pedal tone. It's interesting how Messiaen is not interested at all in parts without development, ruling out at first glance the recapitulation ("obsolete") because it has no modulation nor development. It's also interesting how he takes only a section (or better said, the concept of a section) of the sonata-allegro, to build up his own coherent form. In my opinion, this is related to the big idea in Messiaen of "progressive music": non retrogradable rhythms or added values, non transposable modes... All of them have to be with that idea on not allowing the music to fall in the repetition patterns where classic music had rely on. This is just an example of what Messiaen did with forms. He talks about fugue, an other forms he was interested in, some of them fresh and new (Bird son), some old (plainchant). Is this concept interesting for you? For me, it is. It opens more possibilities of organising music material.

Sometimes inspiration comes from different places: a car passing by in front of you, leaves rustling in the wind, the username of a member of an online forum, or simply... it just is. My first sonata was inspired by one of these three things. Ironically, as long as I've been composing, this is my first... complete (well, somewhat, I'll probably renovate some of the movements later) piano sonata. I. Allegretto Grazioso: The entire sonata rests on the motif found in the bass. 5 simple notes. The motif in this movement is treated to development in a type of hybridized sonata form. II. Adagio Sostenuto: This is one of the movements that I'll probably strengthen later. The form is basic ABA'. I wanted the A section to have a solemn quality to it. Resignation. The middle section introduces some new material -but again is heavily resting on the 5 note motif found in the first movement. III. Presto - Andante con moto: The five note motif becomes the basis of the scalar material utilized in the first half of this movement. Despite being a tad basic, it provided some interesting sonorities -particularly with the infusion of chromaticism. The second half of this movement features snapshots of material utilized in the previous two movements (for the sake of maintaining cohesion throughout the piece). All in all, I'm fairly satisfied with this work. I'll most likely update the second movement -and the second half of the third. Hope you all enjoy!

Well, this is the recomposed version of a "minuet attempt" that I composed some time ago, I recomposed it just today. I recomposed it because the bass was very simple (just octaves in half notes), and it didnt have the form of a minuet. at least now it haves the form I include an harmonic analysis (very roughly) Almost all the minuet is based on the motive of the image The trio isn't finished, I will add it later Any comments are apreciated :3.

Yeah I'd go so far to say most if not all the transitions suffer in some way. Just changing things suddenly definitely has a place! The famous transition to Section 6 of Reich's "Music for 18 Musicians" is a good example, but if you hear in Section 5, that process is already happening subtly in the background. Let your transitions breathe a bit.

At least he didn't just burn all of his works except like 17 he thought weren't bad, or something. French huh, am i rite?

I think that there's room to use the concepts, like I said before. If your material fits the old models, then sure that's not the issue, but if you're working with more modern stuff it can be an interesting to reexamine how those things can fit within more vague definitions of "development," or "reprise." Debussy's Sonatas, which he sadly didn't manage to finish, are a great example of how he dealt with the idea. Mind you, his forward thinking probably also inspired Messiaen a great deal, among other composers of the more neo-classical variety.