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So, I've been trying to find more to add to my musical voice and I think I finally found a nice match in an ancient greek series (mode). I've been researching Ancient Mesopotamian and Ancient Greek musical theory the last week -and decided to try my hand at writing music using the 'scale' as the harmonic underpinning. I do like the result and think it blends well with my use of chromaticism and material. Open to critique though -I'm sure we have some modal lovers here?

I think that's a good question. I'm not too familiar on the linguistic-musicological research in that arena. I'm sure, though, if we find linguistic connections in western music, then it most likely also exists in eastern traditions. There's probably also a connection between the two regions as well -that I'm sure has relics here and there.

Honestly, I don't think the number of composers has really increased over the past few decades. There were certainly a LOT of composers who we never heard of -or at least didn't find a place in the continued performance repertoire. In terms of music from the medieval period.... we know music was well spread amongst the full throngs of society as we also have traces of this fact in our own folk music histories. One exceptional example is the troubadour and trovatores of southern europe. There's an extensive tradition of pub drinking songs in England as well. That said, I like your view at the end. Very heart felt!

Quinn, I think you nailed the argument right here and really brought out what I was getting at with the linguistic comparisons. Those twelve notes are the same language -just with the rules for compiling that language into grammatically understood structures was removed totally and replaced with an artificial reconstruction. Ironically, that reconstruction failed to take the organic evolution of that alphabet into account -as well as human perception of that account. I totally agree with you on the idea that Schoenberg failed when putting his system together. I suppose that's why that system feels cold and mathematical when I attempt to compose in it. ----- That said, I think this is why I can't also get behind the bandwagon of eclecticism. I feel that perhaps going in the other direction -without first correcting the mistakes of our forebears- puts all of the events of the 20th and early 21st centuries into a sort of twilight zone that we can't escape. Whether we like it or not... we still have the music of Stockhausen, Xenakis, Berio, Boulez, Carter, and many other composers who have contributed to the evolution of our art. Instead of incorporating more into it -I feel that music should be reconsolidated to account for all of this. To me, eclecticism seems to do no more than what the recording industry did- making music solely for market sales.

Hi @Fugax Contrapunctus, The prelude is a very nice toccata, and the fugue is a nice one as always. I love the move to Ab major. I think in some episodes one voice can be silent to allow a thinner two voice passage for contrast and reserve the 3 voices sound for the subject, but that's subjective. P.S. Your compositional date on the score seems wrong with future date 19/11/2023! Thanks for sharing! Henry

For ease of reference, I thought I would paste what Wikipedia says about musical eclecticism here: In music theory and music criticism, eclecticism refers to the use of diverse styles, either distinct from the background of an artist using them, or from culturally bygone eras and movements. The term can be used to describe the music of composers who combine multiple styles of composition; an example would be a composer using a whole tone scale variant of a folk song in a pentatonic scale over a chromatic counterpoint, or a tertian arpeggiating melody over quartal or secundal harmonies. Eclecticism can also occur through quotations, whether of a style, direct quotations of folk songs/variations of them—for example, in Mahler's Symphony No. 1—or direct quotations of other composers, for example in Berio's Sinfonia. Unfortunately, I can't speak much to the issue personally, as my involvement in the academic music setting is auxiliary at best. From my limited experience, it does seem that care is taken to expose students to various schools of musical thought. I've been to several local concerts featuring the music of university students... some of them are heavily influenced by popular music, some are largely experimental (all that extended technique stuff), none of them are serialist, and very few of them are good. But this is a public university, not a conservatory, and I'm sure its mindset of "anyone can make music" waters down the end product. I don't think it's worthwhile to describe modern "classical" music as inherently good or bad... it simply is. And what it has become is staggeringly complex; this eclecticism has produced a vast array of styles and expression, and there is surely something for everyone out there. For example, I love the sound of quartal harmonies. I'm quite hard-pressed to find any such music before the early 20th century. On the contrary, admirers of tertian harmony might find the music of the 20th century much to their disliking. However, nowadays classical music has become a glove that fits most. I can find modern composers who use exclusively quartal harmonies, as well as those who use tertian harmonies (perhaps even in a Neoclassical or Neobaroque style). Time will tell whether this eclecticism is to our craft's benefit or detriment.

Yes, important to recognise the linguistic properties of music - well, any sound really, linguistic being more appropriately applied to music than the many aural stimuli that assail us day and sometimes night, which nonetheless usually have some meaning. (It's about meaning which places it in the realm of semiotics.) But I can't agree that because atonal composers use the same 12 notes - in some ways the 'letters' of the alphabet, that they conform to a language - and certainly not the same language as the tonalists. Rather more comes into the tonal language - phrasing, the syntax, progression, intervals, rhythmic construction, dynamics, harmonic rhythm, selective repetition, all of which have been wired into our "minds" for a long time... which doesn't mean every event has to conform. Surprises - events outside the expected - are sometimes delightful, sometimes not. But it comes down to familiarity and expectation. Which comes down to communication and information theory. When I listen to a "verbal" programme I'd tune into one in English. I may not understand all the words, I may not agree with the presenter's viewpoint or have difficulty with concepts at the outset. But I can get the gist. I know enough of the language and am familiar with its delivery. Not so if it was transmitted in a language I can't speak - or an unfamiliar topic about which my vocabulary is non-existent. I might like the sound of it, sense musical outlines in the undulations of the voice but I wouldn't understand much of what was being said. Same with music that deviates too far from traditional tonality that the listener can no longer get the gist. It's where Schönberg fell flat. Thinking that he could create a new language which magically would be understood by a universal audience. Only Alban Berg who used the system at the time seemed to appreciate that music was the transmitter and the audience, the receiver. To me, Berg did the 'thinking through' at which Schönberg failed. Perhaps if Schönberg's ideas had been introduced more gently reception might have been different. And so with pure atonality (that which avoids key centres at all cost). It conforms to no musically linguistic patterns. It can have rules but in the absence of familiar linguistics it so far remains the province of individual composers. The listener basics are that one learns to listen without expectations. That isn't always easy. What the composer must do is provide means so that listeners have events on which to anchor, so they can reference what's happening at one moment to the next. Unlike serial music, atonal can be approached more gently - more tonal centres - tempi that allow acclimatisation - and gradually build on that. The acceptance of recent, chromatic music suggests that it is starting to enter listeners' repertoire so it's important not to shock them which will simply lead to dismissal.