Gamarshall

Its pretty dandy so far I was quite disappointed when it cut off. What sample Library you using?

No i understand perfectly fine thankyou. Obviously not as interesting as yourself. Why does it dismantle it though? You saying its useless, cumbersome and possibly none existent dismantle's your argument over Kamen's post dismantling my simple and jovial question?

Thats actually great and very interesting. :) But i meant in terms of personal writing? Do you form a Harmonic Sequence first then fit a melody to it or vice-versa.

Gonna tone it down after the last post I put... What come first the melody (chicken) or the Harmony (egg)? Just read a bit on Jean-Phillipe Rameau Baroque composer and writer of Traite de l'harmonie and he based his melody around his harmony. So Rameau laid an egg then cracked it open to get a melody.... I personally just fumble about but i do find getting a good melody is easier once you have the harmony down, also helps with phrasing i feel. Please post your method or whatever...

No, i've just destroyed my own model.... *sigh* it derives not from music but the relationship of Art, Music, Literature, Drama and architecture thats what the time periods are on. We have the Baroque display of the Affections people wanted to touch moods and it was all about drama and movement. Hence Monteverdi's seconda pratica which allows you to break the rules of counterpoint simply to enhance the texts of a vocal work. Opposed to the first practice which he believe dominated the text. Which sort of goes right through I think we have late baroque simply because of the next generation- Bach, Vivaldi, Handel etc. In the classical period we have symmetry and simplicity. Bold buildings with big columns similar to that of the Parthenon in Athens. Why we get this galant style and a sort of monody/ homophonic style- rejecting the complexity of polyphony that had dominated previously. eg Mozarts sonata in C- recognisable melody with light accompaniment. Well romantic i'm not sure about the archietecture, but the art was powerful paintings, portraying a scene, heroism, love or death. Literature was full of flowery stuff some things very difficult to understand. Music reflects this and is easier to understand now but at the time was quite hard to follow- Eroica symphony= heroic, Schumanns- Die Wieterreisse= love and well death you could have a few but Chopins Funeral March probably suits. Then Impressionism to modernism etc....

Yes, I believe the time periods to be good in that they give us something to work from but they also complicate things. As you suggest. But after looking at the history behind the music you notice more and more correlations and problems. I'm just suggesting a new selection of time periods... Simply because i think it may help to clear things up a bit. At one point I was trying to define the enlightenment era from the romantic era but couldn't, this is historically not musically. But I managed to eventually. In my time periods i suggest that Baroque is Baroque- because thats what it is. Late Baroque is Classical- i think history has been tarnished by the suggestion by Enlightenment scholars as complex hence the name Baroque (derived from barocco) But is the picture given to baroque, misshapen pearl, a suggestion of the music or the fact that there was little unity of the Baroque style's between the regions. They just brandished it all as one large baroque mess because as they wanted something simple they'd keep the baroque style a simple mess. Enlightenment is Classical- because this was a time of enlightenment idea's... Early Romantic (following amendments from jawoodruff)- as this was the starting of new idea's which were not oppressed as the composer was now a free man. He was no longer a respected servant but a respected intellectual. The composer wanted to test the tastes of his equals. Nationalist era- in the middle of the romantic era perhaps a sub genre as Nationalism was born from Enlightenment idea's and fed by Romantic feelings. Late Romantic- because its late... haha

"The early baroque (much like early classicism/Roccoco period) exemplified more of a transitional period in music. Generally, you have a period of roughly 1 generation (late medieval/early renaissance, late renaissance/early baroque, late baroque/early classicism, late classicism/early romantic, late romantic/early modern). It's generally these transitional periods that make it far more difficult to create a clear classification or timeline of distinct periods within the history of classical music. I wouldn't really say Tonality was fully established by the Late Baroque period - granted some composers did exhibit some qualities of Common Practice - overall though, it's just not the same. I would argue the early classical period say the full establishment." People obviously didn't wake up and decide that 'today, March 2nd, 1752 was to be- The day Classical Music begins'. It isn't the same, exactly, thats why i'm suggesting Late Baroque to be Classical. Late Baroque was an advancement of Baroque. I'm not suggesting that there the same its the Harmonic differences that are the main way of defining music era's and composers. The baroque era is funny as around Europe you have so many things going on... Italy is doing its own thing, France, England and Spain aswell. "Well, I'm not exactly sure you should say that Beethoven proclaimed himself king of music - and there's literally no evidence to indicate that he considered himself the father of a new musical aesthetic." My sarcasm obviously doesn't come across through typing. Beethoven obviously didn't proclaim himself king and father of Romantic music. I was using it to add some flavour to my argument. He'd need a massive ego to do that. I believe Beethoven to be the kindler of Romanticism though. "You have to realize, also, that events in music usually represent the events of the recent past. Composers in 1848, while being effected by the events, didn't show the effects of it till the 1860s and 1870s at the earliest! Generally, from my understanding, the Nationalist movement starts around the 1860/70s at the earliest and lasted clearly up to the 1910s - if not longer. One can correlate this historically with the rise in tensions that lead up to WWI from the 1890s to the start of the war. Clear, documented, history." Well this must be unusual then. In Italy and Prussia at this time of no telephones and censorship music and the arts provided perfect settings for propaganda, subliminal messages and planning. Music and art touch the emotions even the emotion of nationalism. If you have a lot of people in one place its easier to pass messages to a lot of people at once. Austria in the 1840s banned encore's so people did not get to into the music and start running amok. This is pre-1848. The arts are dangerous they can effect the world in the same way the world effects it.

I'm merely suggesting a new idea that i'm going to look at more probably when I have the chance. But i will respond to some of your, well all of your remarks... 1.Harmonic Unity (brief) - Baroque Period- Still quite modal and we get hints of a new idea tonality. - Classical Period (or late Baroque if you dont like my line) Tonality is established by the end of this era. Starting to get very complex. - Enlightenment Period- is Common practice tonic to dominant relationship? Simple music easy on the ear easy to understand. - Romantic period- I'm pretty sure is Common Practice but as time goes on we get some nice colours coming in. 2. I would list it as the Romantic Era possibly it is a delicate point. We have the enlightenment period... boom... French Revolution the intellectual elite are inspired they start getting flowery. Beethoven becomes a freelance and can do what he has been dying to do write the Eroica the point where he starts changing things and proclaims himself king of music and father of early romanticism. Haydn and Mozart do both start tickling romanticism but they are definitely Enlightenment composers. Mozart died to young unfortunately or we could have seen some wonderful things. 3. I think you could be correct. split it to Romanticism- Late Romanticism. But I would leave the nationalism one as it stands possibly. 4. 1840-1860 i agree is wrong. 1840-1880 i think would be better now i think about it. Uneventful? really? I think the 1848 revolutions were pretty mahoosive. Its a time of great nationalism and romanticism. We have the risorgimento in Italy fighting to get independence and unification of Italy from the Austrians. We have Prussia trying pull all the Germanic states back together and gain full independence from Austria. Both of these, i think, became unified and independent in the 1870's. This didn't happen in a day it had been kicking off since about 1815 and the Vienna settlement following the Napoleonic War. Verdi as a nationalist is controversial also some suggest he was part of the Risorgimento many don't. I think it would be hard for him not to be. 5. I know but thats because I have no suggestions over changing them simply because pre-Baroque i'm not to read up on. and post Romantic well same really... If music is changing then its definitely because somethings going on behind the scene's or i believe it to be that way. I think i've covered a reasonable amount... I think my general history knowledge is too much and it's causing me problems..... I'm glad people are taking an interest anyways. I'm also glad i'm testing people's opinions i'm hoping this will kick off just like it did in 1848 but with words not swords and gunpowder.

Following reading for my music essay and the following writing of it. Then revision for my exam it sparked some thoughts and confusion in my mind. I did my essay on how the social and cultural contexts behind music effected the change from the Enlightenment era, with Mozart and Haydn and the galante style through to Beethoven, to the start of the Romantic era. Writing this caused problems, that i wont go into, with the time periods. A problem that i was going to bring up in the essay but didn't because it is quite controversial and could stir the examiner into failing me hahaha! typical timeline Baroque (1600-1700) late-Baroque (1700-1750) Classical (1750-1830) Romantic (1830-1914) Radical and possibly controversial as this maybe this is my proposed time line from the Baroque era- Baroque (1600-1730) with Monteverdi- Lully and Purcell etc. Classical (1700-1760) Vivaldi and Bach and Handel etc. Enlightenment (1750-1830) Haydn, Mozart and early Beethoven etc. Romantic era (1800-1914) Post Eroica Beethoven to Chopin to Mahler. etc. Nationalist era (1840-1890)- Verdi, Wagner, Grieg etc. My opinion is always changing on music history as i read more and more but I'm just curious to know what other's think on this matter. It did cross my mind to post a poll on this between my line and the traditional one but I won't. I will just read, hopefully, other people's posts on the matter.

Thanks haha No this is good stuff I want to hear people's thoughts. Constructive criticism which is what i hope (and is so far delivering) this website can bring me. I intend to be good not to feel good. Thank you for listening to my piece and I hope when I do get around to modifying it that it is an improvement.

Well when I originally set about writing the piece it was to have no link to alouette at all. its only after playing the first few bars that I recognised the similarities and thought I would link it in with alouette. That is why the prelude is so similar. The alberti bass i understand i have used substantially and will probably look into changing that. This piece was simply a bit of fun that i rattled off quite quickly though but now that I have some nice feedback I may go back to it and change it. Thank you everyone for the comments they are of great help. P.S. i'll change the title if you want to French-Canadian Folk Song? or Canadian?

I see. Yes i will definitely go back to it and have a look at changing the left hand. Thanks for the feedback. I see where you are coming from and maybe in a couple of weeks I will repost it with some modifications. Thank you.

Thank you for the comment. It is a great little song. It wasn't going to be alouette until I write my prelude and realised it sounded similar. But yes I know what you mean it is simple stuff, i'm probable going to look into theme and variations more. Thanks for the comment.

It definitely doesn't lack character. I really like this piece. I think its well executed. Thats enough from me I think until I get my own share of reviews and feel the almighty wrath of others haha

Theme and 3 Variations on Alouette.Prelude, Theme and Variations on a French Folk Song Prelude, Theme and Variations on a French Folk Song