aracu

The perception of what is tonal/ atonal varies considerably. An understanding and control of harmony is important to a composer's craft regardless of how it will be catagorized.

This is the rule for transposing cues where there is not a doubling instrument involved. Based on this rule, it is logical to think that each cue would be transposed according to which instrument the cue was leading to, if the player were switching between two intruments. In Gardener Read's book "A Manual of Modern Practice" on page 441 he states: "All cues - and these are a necessity when a player must switch intruments - should be notated in terms of the alternate instrument". The way he has stated this can be interpreted in two different ways, so it does not clarify the issue.

I assume that a cue should switch transposition according to with of the two instruments it is leading to. That seems the most logical to me, but I just thought I would check to get some more opinions, to see if there is an established rule.

Taking into consideration that cues should be transposed to the instrument reading them, in writing out a part which has a doubling instrument, should you switch the transposing depending on which of the two instruments the cue is leading up to?

The "wrong" statement is to say that one point of view is "wrong" and another is "right", a kind of traffic cop or school teacher mentality. Did it occur to you that no reply on the thread, not even yours, is "wrong". For better or worse, none of the following words used to describe music have consistent meanings: mode, scale, tonal, tonality, key, atonal, tonal center. To have an open conversation using these words must begin from recognizing that the meanings can shift depending on such things as the historical context, genre of music, theoretical point of view etc. The definition of each word can encompass all the different points of view and also be open to future interpretations. There is not an end to it. Neither music or language are ever finalized. If they were there would be no need to have any kind of communication about them.

By looking at traditional music as not being modal, the analysis presents music as something fragmented into many small pieces without an explanation. The unity and missing explanation is found in a modal analysis.

In order to have an intelligent conversation, as opposed to an argument, it is necessary to understand that if you don't agree with something, it does not make it "wrong". To say "wrong again, but nevermind" is indicative of a character flaw.

Most classical music which is analyzed in academic textbooks as "tonal" ( an ambiguous and subjective word) can be analyzed more simply as modal. In other words, a piece or section of music does not have to be stuck in one mode in order to be thought of as modal. Music can be looked at as being modal, as it shifts from one mode to another. A mode is a group of notes, traditionally seven. In a major key there are seven traditional modes which use the same group of notes: ionian, dorian etc. The traditional harmonic minor scale or mode uses the major (ionian) key #5 from it's sixth degree (aeolian with a natural 7th degree). The traditional melodic minor ascending scale or mode uses the major (ionian) key #1 from it's second degree (dorian with a natural 7). This comes out to a total of 21 different modes which are connected together in a traditional major key, by only altering two degrees of the key (ionian= seven modes, ionian #1 = seven modes, ionian #5 = seven modes, a total of 21 different modes). Departing somewhat from traditional harmony, are the symetrlcal modes of limited transposition. The most atonal sounding music which still uses the same tuning system can also be thought of as modal, with the mode consisting of all twelve tones. Whether or not a piece of music is modal depends on how it is looked at.

It's a part for xylophone, with a violin cue in it. Still not sure if that's clear. But besides that, is it generally considered correct to place 15ma....... sempre (as opposed to 15ma with a broken line running the entire length of the section)? Sounds like a good idea to me.

I agree. What is a traditional indication to place at the begining of the part, so that the musician doubling knows which instrument he will have to pick up first (imagine that he doesn't actually play untill the second page of his part, the first page being full of empty bars with meter changes and cues).

I didn't write out my original question clearly enough. I'll try to restate it more clearly. I'm writing out the individual parts of an orchestral score. It's my understanding that a cue should be transposed in the same way that the instrument using the cue is transposed. A xylophone sounds two octaves higher than written. So a violin cue written into the xylophone part should also sound two octaves higher than written, if I am not mistaken. So the easiest way to make a violin cue sound two octaves higher than written would be to copy it as it is already written for the violin with an added octave sign at the begining indicating two octaves down for the entire cue. It would make it less cluttered visually to use an octave sign without the usual broken dotted line. Does this clarify the original post?

If the cue were to be written out with an octave sign indicating 2 octaves lower, what would be the correct octave sign to use without having to add a broken or dotted line?

In writing out a violin cue for xylophone, is it ok to simply copy the violin cue with an octave sign at the begining indicating 2 octaves lower? If so, what is the simplest acceptable indication (hopefully one without having to write out a broken dotted line underneath)?

Sorry, I didn't state the question clearly. Imagine the part is for an orchestral piece, for a flute player doubling on piccolo. The player doesn't come in untill the second page of the part. The first page is full of bars with changes in meter and cues to help make sure the player doesn't get lost. Would you put at the begining of the part an indication of which instrument the player plays first (flute or piccolo), to help prepare for it ?

Thanks for the replies! Another question concerning parts with doubling: If the player does not play at the begining of the part, would you place an indication at the begining to let the player know which instrument will be played first? If so, what is a traditional way of indicating it?