danishali903

Thank you all for the feedback! The past couple of days have been busy, so I’m only just getting around to responding. On the choice of key @Luis Hernández I did consider transposing the piece to E minor to make it more comfortable for the musicians. Ultimately, I decided against it because I think the key contributes to the harmonic “color”—something that becomes even more significant in orchestration. Speaking from a string player’s perspective, the reduced resonance from open strings and the frequent need for vibrato help reinforce the piece’s somber, melancholic mood. There are also contrasting sections that modulate to more string-friendly keys, such as G major. In those passages, I use open strings and natural harmonics to make the contrast more pronounced. @Alex Weidmann , speaking as a semi-professional string player, I’d say it’s definitely playable. That said, it’s an uncommon orchestral key and creates plenty of intonation challenges for the ensemble. I can also confirm from experience that orchestral players generally aren’t too thrilled when they see a key signature with five or more flats or sharps! Orchestration choices Thank you for the detailed feedback, @Luis Hernández I agree that I may have written the English horn parts a little too high in places. Honestly, if I’d had the option, I might have scored the piece for two English horn players, since the instrument’s tone and timbre fit the atmosphere so well. Strangely, I’ve never been especially fond of writing two oboe parts—but maybe that’s just me. You’re probably right about bars 52–53. My intention was to thin out the upper octaves so that the viola-and-cello octave line would come through more clearly, with the upper voices adding a kind of “shine” to it. In a live performance, I think it could work reasonably well, depending on the strength of the flute players. I’ve been using Dorico since Finale went bust. I used its automatic condensing feature for this score, but I’m not always happy with the choices it makes. I usually go back and manually condense or uncondense the parts, but I didn’t have time to do that for this piece.

Hi all - I’m back from a bit of a musical hiatus/summer break, and I wanted to share my latest orchestration project: Fauré’s Nocturne No. 1 in E-flat minor. Some of you may remember an earlier orchestration of this piece posted on the forum by @Alex Weidmann which I also reviewed at the time. That version gave me some ideas and eventually inspired me to try orchestrating the piece myself, although I ended up taking my own approach to it. I still think this is a surprisingly difficult piece to orchestrate. E-flat minor is not the friendliest orchestral key, particularly for the strings, harp, and transposing instruments. The piano writing also contains a lot of overlapping lines and inner details that cannot simply be transferred directly without the texture becoming too heavy. As an additional challenge, I limited myself to a relatively small chamber orchestra: two flutes with piccolo doubling, oboe, English horn, two clarinets, two bassoons, two horns, harp, and strings. I was thinking loosely of the scale and transparency of Ravel’s orchestration of the Pavane pour une infante défunte, rather than trying to imitate its sound directly. My goal was to preserve the intimate, nocturnal character of the original while passing the melodic material between solo winds, divided strings, and occasional string soloists. I also tried to avoid using the harp as a constant substitute for the piano, saving it instead for color and continuity. I’m interested to hear what everyone thinks. The score and audio are attached—thanks for taking a look! Nocturne No. 1 in E Flat Minor - Flow 1.mp3 Full score.pdf

Don't undersell yourself! This is quite a good attempt, and you've clearly put a lot of thought in the orchestration. I mentioned the slurs mostly because of the bowing/sound implications. With less bow to use for more notes, string player tend to play softer which in your case helps with the softer dynamics (in addition to the legato articulation). I know software can be finicky so totally understand your workaround. "...when Debussy orchestrated, he didn’t care about the number of instruments – it was all in the service of colour." I'm going to disagree with that somewhat. Yes, he wanted different colors, but he was very conscious about experimenting with different timbres/ranges of different instrument families. The harmonics issue: technically playable, yes...but writing 5th touch artificial harmonics is pretty rare in orchestral music. Unless those violinists have big hands, they'd have to stretch more than normal to play that. That's why 4th touch harmonics are better and the standard (I think you might be able to convert some of those)

This is a very evocative and Debussy-like orchestration! Some minor things: I think you can add slurs in the third measure when strings come in. The articulation is suppose to be legato and smooth, and slurs will help with that. Continue the slurs in the viola/cello/bass melody in bar 5 onwards. Same thing in bar 28...and since the violins are PP, slurs would DEFINITELY help. Probably can consolidate the 3 flute parts to 2, with the 2nd player doubling on alto and piccolo. Probably can remove the tuba too since it's mostly doubling the double basses. You might also be able to consolidate the 4 horns to 2. Play around with mixing bassoons or clarinets with horns. Some of the violin harmonics look suspicious...measure 19 specifically in 1st violins.

I've been playing violin/viola for over 20 years now and I still find it hard to describe harmonics, lol. There's like a whole physics lecture behind them and most of it goes over my head Basically, there are two kinds of string harmonics: natural and artificial. In short, natural harmonics occur when the player lightly touches a point on the string to produce the harmonic tone. These are a little confusing to notate since what one might see on the page isn't necessarily the pitch heard. I In the example above, it's basically telling the player to lightly touch the note where the player would normally play the E on the open G string. This will produce the B harmonic (as notated in the parenthesis). Some composers might just notate the diamond note on the E, and not have the G...players will know what to do. . Artificial harmonics are a little easier to notate. In the example above, you're telling the player to press the string (in this case the G string...the IV means G string...but the B notated is only possible on the G string so it's redundant) with the 1st finger (the index finger), and then lightly touch with their pinky finger a fourth above (if the player presses hard with their pinky finger, the note produced will be an E). The resulting pitch will be a B, but a harmonic that sounds 2 octaves higher than notated. These perfect 4th harmonics are pretty much standard in orchestral repertoire and will always produce the lower regular note 2 octaves higher than notated. Obviously, you can't do these harmonics on open strings, there always has to be a stopped note. Both examples above will produce the same B harmonic. The natural harmonic might be easier for players to play/find. Hopefully that made sense!

Errr...probably still won't work. It would be better to keep all those runs within the same instrument family (strings or winds). This reminds of a passage in Brahms' 1st Piano Quartet where the piano has a mini cadenza towards the end: https://youtu.be/uwAQ7zVM6sE?si=HpAKiiDPOwnDPdHC&t=2285 Arnold Schoenberg eventually orchestrated this piece and had a clever take on this passage: https://youtu.be/7wzJluXJ5H8?si=th4OTUQ7RTSntfSD&t=2422 The Fauré passage is bit different in character, but I think Schoenberg has a good example of something you can try. Maybe give those runs to a 2 clarinets: 1 Eb for the higher pitches, and 1 regular Bb clarinet. They'll be sitting close to each other, and would easily blend in to each others' runs and timbre. The violin/piccolo combo would be too jarring in tonal color, and the fact on stage they'll be separated by a few feet, making the coordination really difficult.

True. There definitely will be some comments made though lol. Also, Rachmaninoff’s symphony is in the friendly key of E Minor, not E Flat minor.

Looking at that key is giving me anxiety....orchestral players are not gonna love it. I wasn't familiar with the piano piece so I did take a listen to it to compare. I'm not a fan of the faster tempo marking....I think it zaps away the "nocturnal" feeling and feels more like a slow waltz at the faster tempo. Also, the piece as written by Faure is so idiomatic for the piano, that it invites tempo fluctuations/rubato that will be hard to capture in an orchestration without clear guidance in the score. And with that awful key!!!! Orchestrating this is a challenge. There is a lot of over reliance on woodwinds here....especially in the beginning. Without slurs and phrasing markings in the score and audio, it sounds a little sterile. Also wind players have to breathe....that flute line from the beginning to A is gonna be tough. Also, a lot of awkward writing in general (comments above already have highlighted some of these). Example below of the bassoons/contrabassoon before A...contrabassoon part seems wasted on high random notes, and the 64th rest (I think?) right before A in the 1st bassoon is dangerous: I think there are certain figures that can be better suited for string players: The figure above might be better for the cellos to play (with proper slurring and articulation written in). Measures 23-29 can be given to the upper strings. I think in general you have to be a little more creative with your orchestral colors. The whole thing from 86-93 is not good in my opinion. This is where you have to get REALLY creative to orchestrate that cadenza, and the way it is written now....having 12-14 first violinists play those fast notes (in that very ugly key) and then dovetailing to one piccolo player and back is not going to sound good. I think @Luis Hernández said it best in his comment: it is a little to literal "transcription" of the original piano work. It definitely needs a lot of creative changing to translate it to have an orchestra tackle it.

Having read the program notes page, I think you capture the atmosphere of some of the themes (ie. betrayal, turbulence) you mentioned. It would be interesting to hear the rest of the soundtrack to see how the themes/motifs you have here develop. Though, I gotta be honest...film scores lately have a very generic sound to them and this (for me anyways) falls in that category. Some things musical things from the score I noticed: The way these harmonics are notated is confusing. I'm saying that as a string player. Some 2nd violinists might think you want an open E string, which I'm pretty sure you don't want. If these are actual sounding pitches, the 1st violinist would have an easier time understanding these notations (one is a natural harmonic, the other is an artificial....don't really have a preference): The 2nd violin note (if that is the sounding pitch) is impossible to play as a harmonic on a violin. As I said, players would probably play an open E string. The viola one looks alright, it'll be a natural harmonic on the G string. Saw this in the score a couple of times. Wondering if you could move the pp before the barline to avoid those awkward looking measures with rests. Overall, there seems to be over-reliance on doublings between instrument groups. E to the end is the prime example. I think most of the wind/brass instruments can drop out at 47 for a quieter ending. Also that section felt a little...static? Could use some more rhythmic drive (maybe bring back the bass guitar/cello figure from the beginning?) or just some counterpoint.

That's a lot of info dumping...with very valid comments from @Kvothe and @MK_Piano. I am curious if this specific piece was requested by a 3rd party or did you create for your own learning/pleasure? I'm also not understanding your answer to @MK_Piano's question of how you write your pieces? You mentioned keyboard...do you input the notes and everything using that keyboard? Or it does it come with pre-rendered samples and you just mash them together? I'm a noob when it comes to electronic music... As for the piece of music here, it's alright. It's catchy but repetitive and generic. Not really sure how it ties to Alaska...if you didn't have the video posted, I would've chalked it up to random elevator music. If what you say is true about how the media industry works, it's a shame that the craft of a music making to tell the story pioneered by legends such as Korngold, Newman, Williams, etc. is dead.

This is quite charming! I would love to see a score of the parts that are orchestrated. If I had no context and turned on the radio and this was playing, I would've honestly thought this was a Strauss waltz. That's probably my biggest gripe with this. I think it's suppose to be an homage to the Strauss Viennese Waltz, but it lacks originality or a unique take on the genre.

It would be really cool to hear a large string orchestra play this piece. A couple of comments: It's a bit static and on the short side. I think more development of the melodic material, or even an another theme (that's a little more "active") can help with that. There is a lot of unconvincing, but slightly interesting voice leading and harmonic clashes going on. Some of the transitional chords really random and don't set up the next phrase like they should (most prominent example is bars 39-40 going into 41). It would it make more interesting to have the lower strings have a more active part than just holding on to half notes. The violins don't always have to play the melody, share it with the others! Try to be more creative in writing for parts that are accompanying the melody.

Probably more of a visual reminder to bang on that note...might've overdone it with those markings

Thanks for the comments, Alex! The piccolo will sound an octave higher than written, so technically it is still pitched above the flutes. I agree! I tried figuring out how to do this in Dorico but couldn't figure it out without it looking weird (hence my note). The "vertical" accents denote Marcato. My interpretation is that they are played stronger than your regular accent and are slightly shorter in duration (a half note maybe played as a dotted quarter perhaps)...each note with the Marcato marking needs to be hammered and short-ish. Err...I guess that is subjective and depends on the context of what else is going on in the score. sffz definitely is more "hammered" than sfz

I really enjoyed this! I think you capture the "voice" of Schoenberg that he has in most of his orchestral works. I said this in a previous review, but orchestration is really subjective....so here are my suggestions: First piece I think the oboe is suppose to be piano as well (it's not marked in the score). I also think the pickup Trumpet run can be transferred to the clarinet I don't think the 1st trombone needs to double the cello/horn in the 4th bar. In measure 7, unless the orchestra has 5 timpani drums (or an EXTREMELY good player who can quickly adjust tuning) that is going to be difficult In measure 8, that trumpet part looks questionable...that 32nd note might be messy In bars 13-14, probably could combine the cello/bass part to be played by divided cello....helps with thinning out the sound since it's marked p Generally, it's really hard for brass players to play pp or ppp when there is a moving/active part with leaps. I would give the trombone/tuba part to a bass clarinet and/or bassoon near the end. Second piece I would've used bassoons instead of horn in the 2nd measure. They sound more "dry" staccato and will blend with the pizzicato I'm assuming "ord" means Arco? make that clear in the string parts Trombones don't usually read in treble clef. I would change that to a tenor clef in the last measure. Third piece I would just have the tuba play without doubling from trombone. The passage is already pp and tuba has a more rounder sound for that I think the pppp markings are a bit much Fourth piece Measure 10: that bassoon/trumpet figure is going to be very tricky to play in unison. I would just have trumpet play it (even though it would be a challenge) Fifth piece From how it's written in the score, it looks you only want half of the 2nd violin section play measures 8-11? Sixth piece There is a lot of pp and ppp in here...but a lot of instrument doubling - for example bars 5-6 cello/bass doubling bass trombone/tuba AND all bass instruments the last measure. I would do mutes for all strings and brass in this piece. Maybe even solo strings to reduce the sound. The last two eight notes could easily be just a single bass player doing pizzicato