Luis Hernández
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Ah, I understand perfectly. It’s a ‘cultural’ issue. I strongly associate this sort of piece with the Romantic style, and back then, counterpoint was still very much the order of the day. There’s one thing I learnt a long time ago. If you introduce a change like that in this sort of context, unless it’s done repeatedly (to the point where it’s perceived as ‘normal’), the listener might interpret it as a ‘mistake’.
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I’ve listened to two of them; I’ll listen to the others later. The one in C strikes me as almost perfect. It’s harmonious and has that lullaby feel to it. I just think the two-part section from bar 23 onwards has a sequence of parallel fourths that I’m not entirely keen on. I think what you’re trying to do is complete the chord. The other one sounds less like a lullaby, but I think it suffers from something similar. At certain cadential points, there are successive fourths (doubled, at that) which don’t quite sit right with me in this sort of piece. The thing is, in something so delicate, with such pure lines and drawing on the legacy of counterpoint, all this stands out a bit.
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I completely agree with this. The thing is, when you’re learning, I think it’s good to explore and delve into a wide range of styles, given that we now have the resources to do so. Of course, it’s a process that, depending on each person’s circumstances, may never end. I think the level of commitment plays a big part here. A professional composer is not in the same boat as people who compose as a hobby (and do so whenever they can). Honestly, as I’m in that second group, I don’t think I’ll ever have time in my life to define a narrow circle of influence. That doesn’t mean, however, that when I set out to write something, I do so within a framework I’ve defined beforehand.
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That’s true. Although I’m not sure what implications there are in music being a form of communication. I believe that music is, if anything, a metaphorical language. But the meaning of what it might convey is highly subjective. I certainly don’t believe that innovation has to come through new sounds or things like that. The expansion of the expressive techniques of many instruments has already been fully explored. I was referring more to innovation in terms of style, defined as the set of visual, technical and formal features that characterise a work, an artist or an entire artistic movement. And it is far more difficult to create a new language. As such, I believe there have been very few: modal music centred on a single note, tonal music centred on the triad, and, shall we say, the liberation from that centre in its many expressions. But who knows.
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The truth is, it’s a surprising, original and captivating piece. Two things strike me – though they’re more questions than anything else, as my experience with percussion is very, very limited. One is the speed with which the percussionist changes instruments (or mallets). Sometimes it seems to happen in ‘zero time’. Is that possible? I suppose it must be down to the layout of the instruments and the mallets? The other is that in many sections the vibraphones and marimbas play in unison or an octave apart – is this due to the acoustic volume of the instruments? It sometimes sounds a bit overloaded, but I imagine that’s down to the virtual instrument as well. It’s certainly a very good lesson on percussion. As for the connection with the poem, well, I don’t know – I’m one of those who think that music doesn’t describe anything. To me, it sounds lively and cheerful, and, in a way, the instruments do remind me of a sunset on the coast. The score is explained very well.
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@Kvothe @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu THANK YOU I’m going to try and get hold of a copy of Adler’s treatise… I have a lesser-known little book by Cecil Forsyth (‘Orchestration’) which is a good complement because it covers the history of each instrument, why and how they came to be as they are, amongst other things. As for counterpoint… it’s a controversial topic and warrants a separate thread. In any case, when you haven’t followed a formal musical education and career path, as is my case – I do everything out of passion – at certain points or moments a good teacher is essential. Someone who’s a good educator, who can guide you directly. That gives you the wings to carry on on your own. I’ve turned to this professional ‘help’ at critical moments: When I decided to study tonal and modal harmony in depth. When I decided to delve into 20th-century compositional techniques. When I decided to understand and apply counterpoint in any style. And right now… with orchestration. Long live music!!
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I don’t think innovation has to go hand in hand with formal training. I do think that any kind of training is beneficial. What I find challenging at the moment is the very act of innovating. And that’s not a bad thing. There’s enough material and musical languages out there to do millions of things. Throughout the 20th century, I believe there have indeed been many movements and composers who have explored, innovated and pushed boundaries, many of whom have left behind their own musical languages. Ives + Cowell, Schoenberg, Bartók, Messiaen, Cage, Ligeti, … right up to Pärt and Rautavaara. Minimalism… But since the latter part of the 20th century, I don’t think there has been any significant innovation. Perhaps in this day and age, innovation will have to come hand in hand with new technologies and sciences: Symbiosis with artificial intelligence: perhaps the composer could train a musical language model using their own works to generate variations with which to engage in real-time dialogue. The creation of mutable works (soundtracks, etc.) that never sound the same twice, adapting to factors relating to the listener. Perhaps some kind of microtonal system might re-emerge in the future?
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Having read the review of the trumpet in F, I think it refers to a natural trumpet. It’s the same as with the French horn. Before the 19th century, these instruments were not chromatic. They were only capable of playing a natural scale. That is why there were horns in D, G, etc., depending on how they were constructed. This entailed significant limitations, particularly from today’s perspective. And that is why they took longer to be incorporated into the symphonic repertoire. In the 19th century, horns and trumpets evolved to incorporate the modern mechanisms of valves, etc., and became as we know them today. I believe that in such situations, one should look for another instrument where the register is comfortable.
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A while ago, I uploaded my orchestration of Schönberg’s Six Little Pieces for Piano, Op. 19. There were lots of things that could have been improved. Mainly because, at the time, I didn’t really know how to analyse the original composition properly and transpose it for the orchestra. I’m uploading only No. 2 from Op. 19 here, which is very, very short. After completing it, it was reviewed by a professional composer, and I’ve noted down the suggestions he gave me. The opening was very ‘dry’, with just the strings in pizzicato, so I added the flute notes, which are in a soft register and played pianissimo, to create a resonant effect. The line played by the oboe and clarinet in bars 2 and 3 – I’d originally written it doubled by a violin, with the parts shared between these instruments. I’ve removed the violin and split the line into two pairs that make sense given the different intervals. This way, the instruments sound ‘pure’, in keeping with this musical language. At the climactic moments, in bar 6 and the finale, I have added a beat or more, so that those climactic chords resonate for as long as necessary. Furthermore, the two final notes on the clarinets were short (eighth notes) and, as the teacher pointed out, the upper part of the chord did indeed sound ‘muted’ and hollow. So I lengthened them. Extending the final chord allowed me to make the harp’s glissando rise and then fall. Before, it only went up. In this sort of language, I think you have to be quite literal, but also allow yourself some licence so that the orchestra can display its capabilities, such as those resonances and prolongations in certain bars. 02 sch.mp3 Partitura_.pdf
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Hello Fantastic. I think it captures the romantic spirit of Fauré [SORRY: DEBUSSY] very well – intimate, aristocratic and with a restrained elegance – acting as a direct bridge between the 19th century and French Impressionism. It all sounds very clear. I just have two comments: 1. Another thing that’s been firmly etched into my mind regarding the orchestra: always reinforce the bass. Because it’s in the part of the audio spectrum that the human ear perceives least clearly. Here it’s carried solely by the double basses; it could be doubled by the cellos, or a horn, or alternated, since you don’t have any bassoons. 2. Finally, I’m not sure if it’s possible to fit mutes onto the violins and viola in such a short space of time (half a bar). Overtones could be used for that effect. Best regards.
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Hi I think Fux’s book is entertaining and can teach you a few things, but both the teaching method and the content itself are very outdated. These days, you need to understand counterpoint not only in its Baroque splendour or earlier forms, but also in Classicism, Romanticism and any avant-garde style. As for books on orchestration, my view is that many devote most of their content to the instruments themselves, rather than to orchestration as such. In that sense, the book with the most practical content of this kind is Rimsky-Korsakov’s, though that isn’t very up to date either… To get started with many contemporary compositional techniques, I think Vincent Persichetti’s book is essential.
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I think it sounds absolutely brilliant. And it’s an impressive piece of work, especially the detail with which you’ve crafted the strings. I also really like the fact that ‘it doesn’t sound like a piano at all, but rather like an orchestra’. And yes, I did want to make a few observations which, as I say, are just that – my opinions. Firstly, I’ve already mentioned the question of key. E flat minor is a brilliant key for the piano, but it’s one of the worst for the orchestra. Berlioz said as much in his treatise, as did Rimsky-Korsakov in his. I don’t know, it seems there’s a bit of a fear of transposing the work a semitone up or down, as if it were sacrilege or as if we were straying terribly from the composer’s intention. I believe that if we’re orchestrating, we have to make the best decisions to ensure it sounds as good as possible. But I’ll say it again, it’s up to each individual. The second point is the choice of the English horn as an instrument throughout the work. It’s not that I think it’s wrong, but I do wonder whether it’s really necessary. Apart from specific cases (Impressionism, etc.) where it can serve as a distinctive ‘colour’ instrument, in the orchestra I believe it is an instrument of extension and should only be used when the two oboes cannot cover the lower register. The opening line, for example, could be played very well by a second oboe. In other instances, even where it is possible, I feel the English horn is in a rather high register. Thirdly, another instrument where I would sometimes have assigned its part to a different instrument is the flute. In bar 15, it is in a low/very low register and will be completely drowned out by the English horn, even with the flutes in A2. I can see the intention to add a different colour to that phrase, which is why they’re doubling, but I’m not sure – in this case, I would have doubled the C an octave higher with a clarinet, for example. The octave doubling of the A-flat flute in bars 52–53… There, Flute 1 completely drowns out Flute 2 because it’s in its brilliant register, and Flute 2 is doing its best. One of the things I was taught on the woodwinds is to try not to double at the octave with the same instrument, because the difference (imbalance) in tone and volume is very great. It’s better to double with another instrument whose range in that other octave is optimal. Well, please excuse all this, as these are minor details in the context of such an extensive and beautifully crafted score, which sounds absolutely marvellous. Finally, a question: what software do you use.... In bars 73 and 74, the clarinets haven’t been condensed I don’t know if you do this manually or if the condensing is automated. I sometimes have those problems and when the programme won’t...
