Camilla

Re: 'Cello dominating I don't think that's at all an issue, it'll depend on the ability of the performer but you can easily play that very softly. Perhaps even indicate it should be played on the III string if you're worried. But I mean... nothing else is playing so of course the 'cello will dominate... Re: Glissando It's true it would be more practical that way BUT I think it's still possible this way and you wouldn't have to go up the III and IV strings. You could double stop over II and III, with a first finger on the C and a third on the F#, then slide down and just change to the III and IV strings once you reach the C#. I.e. Slide down on 1st and 2nd finger, then slide fingers over to III and IV string for the C# and G. It's not like it's that exposed, it'd work fine like that. Okay.. other thoughts... The part at bar 15 where the 'cellist is tapping the instrument I think should be notated more simply. With a percussive effect like that the precise duration of the note is not going to be heard. So, for example, in the 'cello part.. just notate it as quavers on each beat. The viola part's fine. You don't have to do that but it just makes it easier to read and it's unnecessarily more difficult to read as it is. The snap pizz in 67, yeah that's the wrong symbol to use unless you specify you're using it differently, a 'cellist would use their thumb to stop the bottom notes if they saw this. But also... I wouldn't use my thumb to pizz a three-note snap pizz, I'd just use three individual fingers. I think you should leave that because different performers have different ways of doing snap pizz that work for them. Using your thumb will give you a rolled chord. Aside from technical things, I think it's a really interesting piece, but I don't know that the ending really works. I'd love to hear a live recording!

To notate music. That'd be the first step, I think!

Rolifer, the score notation is mainly my fault. I typed it up and I couldn't be bothered sharing staves because it takes a lot longer to type out that way in Finale. But consider the correction noted!

I've actually never used an instrument to compose initially... But I'm the same as robin, I write everything out on paper without an instrument or anything, and then use an instrument to fine tune.

But once you've learned them........ then you know how to work the program.................. so who cares if someone else thinks another is better....? Why does anyone care what program someone else uses? It's illogical. It doesn't affect you, stick to what you like, don't go preaching to other people unless they ask for advice.

But seriously.... who cares? Why debate about it? If you like Sibelius.. use Sibelius.. if you like Finale... use Finale....

Pathetique. Which is French.. and translates to either "pathetic" OR "moving"/"touching"... So... which do you think Beethoven meant..?

This name is stolen from another rock band. Tut tut tut...

Haha. PRETTY sure it's not "Pathetic Sonata" :D Also, "The Swan" from Saint-Saens Carnival of the Animals and Arvo Prt's "Fur Alina" and "Spiegel im Spiegel" are some of my favourites that haven't been mentioned.

Hey, The piece really is too long.. I'd suggest dividing it into movements and focusing the different ideas of each movement more? Okay, so I agree there are too many repeated measures. Well... you basically have to either cut out half of it or ADD something over the top. Because it's just like hearing only an accompanying line for over a minute. About bar 12 is where it starts getting boring. You really need to add something or change what's happening there. The change to the winds at bar 24 is a huge relief to the ear but then it's still just the same repeated quaver pattern! The section between there and bar 43 has some really nice minimalist sort of stuff going on, but you need to balance it well for it to remain interesting. I know the midi file is a piece of crap, but make sure in the score you have dynamics in so that everything can be heard the way you want it to be. At bar 43, something different needs to happen, it's really no good going back to just repeated quavers. 55 gets interesting again, even the harmony in just the repeated quavers gets more interesting. But as soon as you just go back to quavers with the occasional interrupting chord in other parts... it just loses interest completely. Then when you do a similar thing to what happens at 43, that goes too long, and it's too soon after it's pretty much already happened to basically repeat it again in full. From 103 works well because even though it's material you've already introduced, it's in a completely different area of the ensemble AND you have a different background for it instead of just repeated quavers! Then after that section I completely lose track of where the piece is going. (Possibly because you did! :)) You change material really suddenly... and then just return to old material after a few bars. Doesn't really work. Which is why I think you need separate movements.. to focus your material more. Just some technical things, from bar 42 onwards and places like that in the winds... you need to remember that these people need to breathe! And repeated notes like that aren't going to be easy, either. I'm not a wind player but the lines in that part and others like it really don't seem to suit the instruments. You need to indicate whether you want the strings divisi or non divisi in any places there are multiple notes in a part. Places like bar 64, is it really necessary to have the violas split into three? I mean... you already have the G played in various other parts, why do you need it played in that part, too? I'd suggest just leaving the violas with the D and Eb. You do need to think about things like that, balancing the notes in chords so the harmony is clear. And also consider that a section of violins playing one note of a chord compared to a section of violins dividing the chord amongst them is going to sound very different within the whole ensemble. What does "going to near top of neck" mean? From bar 178, I wouldn't use treble clef for the 'cello there, it's not high enough. Just use tenor, it would make more sense to a player. Okay, just in general I think something that would be good for you to do is find all the themes/motifs in this piece, and figure out how often each of them occurs and what their purpose is. Just as an exercise. Some things are just used way too much. The motif introduced in bar 30 in violin 2, for example, is used on and off for the majority of the piece.. and it's a long work and while there's nothing wrong with this motif... it isn't actually that interesting and it's one of those nagging things that will stop people from listening and make them miss anything interesting you are doing. You don't need to get rid of it, but just use it more sparingly. I didn't have time to listen and comment on past about 8 minutes today, I can try to have another listen but I think if you make some of those major changes first then it'll be easier to look more closely at the detail of the piece. Overall... divide it into movements or at least draw up a structure plan so you can sort out your material in a more logical and less repetitive way. I suppose you're only a kid so you wouldn't be too familiar with essay-writing... but it's sort of like when someone writes an essay that has some really good points, but they get lost trying to express them and end up repeating the same thing over and over or adding in irrelevant points. You need to be concise and clear in essays, and you need to find this clarity in your compositional work, too. Some really impressive stuff, you just need to really think about focusing it more!

Oh.... I beg to differ..

Well the very opening sounds like "Joy To The World"..! Maybe I'm just hearing the carols constantly going around in my head these days in everything I listen to.. Sorry, don't know what that one is! And I can't remember the name of the software, either!

Haha. Thanks, yeah it made sense. But yes.. this is like... the beginnings of an introduction.. so it's not supposed to be all that developed yet. I just wanted to check I hadn't copied something before I continued. Thanks, though! I will work on it some more eventually and you can see if I manage what you're advising.

Hmm.. it'd still be pretty difficult. I think you'd be better off going for the left hand pizz. See what other people have to say. I can try playing it that way tomorrow if you'd like and I can get back to you. I just won't be home before then.

When you change the key there should be a list of times it can last for.. like.. "Measure x through to measure y", that's how you fix that. You can also select for it not to transpose, it says something like "hold pitches" etc.. and that way if you've just been writing in accidentals and change the key to make them redundant it'll just leave it at the same pitch and remove the accidentals. Perhaps these options aren't in notepad, but just check you haven't missed that. For the time signature there should be a tool.. with a time signature on it.. or you can even go into one of the drop-down menus and select the tool that way. My main advice to you would be to check things out yourself thoroughly and use the Finale help tool, it is really useful and you can search for anything you need. You really can't expect to use a new program without going through a good deal of trial and error yourself. Camilla