Display

ah, I didn't know this about tonal style! thank you again, excellent reminder!

sweet, I think I've read this but I totally forgot! so basically, as long the suspension is good (in terms of what is good in 2 voice textures) against a 3rd voice, 7>8 is not controversial at all? haha this is kind warping my brain but i think i'm beginning to see the logic... it's actually perfectly consistent to the examples I have, idk why the rule from the other textbook stuck with me so much... PS i found the page u shared, thanks!

I was replying to you too quickly > I don't have much time to look up every example, to try and find the source work... I do not have the source works as text because that would be just too much information to store in any sort of helpful manner... names of composers of the works I already gave you... I can post examples as midi, I may be able to tell you more names of source works over the coming few days... if you're suspicious of me, which I only offer because of my previous experiences on the forum, nothing to do with you, I would encourage you in persisting, for my sake... but for yours to reconsider: why would I try to invent something like this and what motive would it serve? all the best! PS another thing that "masks" the ligature well is that, as you can see, it forms a cambiata where "return or recovery is larger than a 2 (secunda) or absent" which is used by this particular composer very often (but a fair number of others as well) (here I'm just purely speaking "melodically", second tone of the cambiata figure is actually consonant with one voice but has a "genuine dissonant ""function"" of the cambiata figure's second tone" in relation to another...) as I said it's nearing a cadence so the relations get a bit less straightforward, as I'm sure you know is common... again, others are much more "plain" / easy to spot

I gave u a misleading numbering, the numbering I have on my pdf is so I can have as many examples in one file (reasons are related to DAW it's not relevant), so I count measures differently 🤦‍♂️ the relation is between outer voices, m 175-176 disregard my numbers u can just count from 173 sorry about that I was replying to you too quickly...

under what circumstances > i forgot to reply to this the example i gave by name: it's near a cadence, the values are more rapid at this point, it's figured out a bit "sneaky" (in a sense that maybe ears of someone not accustomed to the usual things might not even register it), but u can see the score yourself on choral wiki: cpdl dot org others are not so, they appear as regular (any other type of common) ligature, but I can't name them all from the top of my head also I only found like 6-8 of these...

bastardized version > haha that's funny! but I guess some of it is music "rules" changing/advancing, that's actually an interesting topic... (more and more I see "other side" of that thing, like some baroque period leap tendencies actually not being that "poor" or difficult vocally as theorists like Jeppesen would "have you believe") I don't recall anything from Jeppesen book (the counterpoint i don't have the one specializing in Palestrina) on this issue, if you find something I would love if you can remind us here... rules of counterpoint were not yet as developed > I don't know if i would agree with your statement in a strict/complete sense, but i understand your point here! the pre roman school guidelines being more relaxed from our view... this book i mentioned doesn't make any distinction between Flemish (Netherlandish, Burgundian w/e ppl call them) and Roman "periods" in terms of rules, that might be why i didn't clarify Jean Mouton may be the closest to our time? but even he is somewhere between these two... cheers for taking time and interest in solving the issue! all the best!

I like the solemnness you achieved here!

first one I can offer the work name of: "missa mi-mi" Johannes Ockeghem, Credo, m 171 this one is slightly less "problematic" but still applies, others are much more straightforward they include examples from Jean Mouton, Obrecht, Isaac... what is the reason behind your curiosity? (if any, like I suppose surely this isn't just chatting? 😮)

i read in a texbook by Sergei Taneyev that a ligature of 7-8 in a lower voice is prohibited in the old style of voice leading, but i found examples of it in works (very few though) did anyone here who reads old works find this ligature in practical use? i can list the findings I made but I think I can only remember exact partsong in one example do you know from study or maybe you were thought in a class, is this a prohibited ligature? 🤔 (obviously i can only recommend Sergei Taneyev textbook but it's not unimaginable that someone living in the time this master was living in didn't have a chance to get their hands on all the works we have the privilege of having access to today)

edit

edit

Bas je fino ovo! Vrlo moderno cuo sam nekoliko bas popularnih kompozitora danasnjih da se zanimaju za slicne harmonije! A jedno samo da predlozim, ako zelis da nesto bude u 8 glasova ili mnogo, a traje duze od kratkih liturgijskih odgovora na primer, bilo bi dobro da variras gustinu tokom trajanja: recimo ako pocinje iz mnogo? na pola svedi u jedan ili manje od 3 na primer... i obrnuto sto vise "razlicitih" faktora takvih izbalansiras bolje ce biti za uho (to nisam rekao ja to mozes naci u dobrom jednom udzbeniku) a to ti spominjem zato sto mi se cini da konstantno ima 6 vv posle uvoda... PS odlican prilaz najvisoj noti!

edit

edit

hi! any critique from arrangers and composers of vocal music would be welcomed! but even if you're not interested in this type of music critiques are welcomed! thanks for your time!