knolan

Dear Colleagues, Thanks a million for your replies. I appreciate it that it looks like I'm in musicologist mode here; but the question was posted with composition of a new piece in mind. Inadvertently, I found my own piece being planned in discrete sections that must however bind together. Hence in looking for mechanisms to make sure it is unified, La Mer came to mind. But although I'm no spring chicken, I am relatively new to orchestral composing and it does explicitly say on the welcome page of this web site that it is for new composers of all ages. Hence I felt it justified to post my question. I also felt that any pointers derived would be of benefit to all reading the forum. I do not believe, by the way, that analysis of works is in the realm of musicology. Analysis of works occurs for many reasons, most especially by composers to understand the masters and their masterpieces and of course by conductors. Musicology is far more rooted in the 'science' in music (using the word science in a broad context); and my question does not venture into that territory whatsoever. My queries are straight forward, good and old fashioned analysis for very musical and compositional reasons. And, having searched exhaustively, I have found that good analyses of Debussy's music are rare. There simply aren't many good sources of analysis of either Debussy's or Ravel's music. (As an aside - if anyone could provide a pointer to a harmonic analysis of Ravel's Daphnis and Chloe 3rd suite, I'd be very grateful!!) I agree wholeheartedly with proposal above that what unifies Debussy's first movement of La Mer is it's atmosphere more so than any form or structure. Interestingly I recently played it to my sister who is not into classical music; and the movement did not seem unified to her at all. But she still 'bought into it' because the writing was just so good, and because it creates such a wonderful atmosphere. That puts it up to me in my own piece of course - I have to write well or my piece is going to turn out absolutely terrible :-( Thanks for your posts - they are genuinely appreciated and I take back whole heartedly my disheartened feelings earlier in the year regarding this forum. Your time and expertise is genuinely appreciated. Cheers, Kevin.

Given the complete lack of response, I have found this forum to be bitterly disappointing - a great pity. However, for those who might be interested, I've studied the 1st movement of La Mer intensely and this is what I've come up with so far: Bars 1-30 - Introduction Bars 31-82 - 1st Major Section built on one single motif Bars 83-121 - 2nd Major section built on one single contrasting motif Bars 122-141 - Reprise, using rhythm of 1st motif. ...so there are just two ideas in the movement, and each is developed using appropriate texture, rhythmic figurations and harmonies appropriate to Debussy. Of course the devil is in the detail - ah well I have the rest of my life to try to figure that out. None the less, I see the broad 'pace' of ideas explored in the piece now and can see that about 8 minutes is needed to do justice to just two ideas. My piece has 6 (related) ideas and I was aiming for it to be 7 minutes long. I could sense it wasn't going to work. I don't know enough of the details of Debussy's compositional technique to mimic it but I can sense that my piece will draw on impressionistic idioms fused with my Celtic roots. So this analysis has given me a sense of what I can achieve in 7 minutes so it was a fruitful exercise. In essence I need to either pare back the scope of my piece or start burning the midnight oil to write well enough to bind six ideas todether in 7 or 8 minutes! Kevin.

Any useful answers to my query would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Kevin.

Hi, I'm studying Debussy's La Mer from the perspective of a composer. I have recently noticed (from studying the score with CD) that each movement, but especially the 1st, is not in any of the usual large-scale forms. It seems to me that what's important are musical phrases or 'sections' lasting 20 bars or more, and within those smaller phrases associated with the intended gesturing and movement. But from section to section and phrase to phrase, there seems to be very little that binds them together; yet the piece seems completely coherent. Apart from some pedal bass, there is often little that connects one section to the next. Hence - what is it that keeps the movement unified? Why does it sound coherent. Is it that it might not be that coherent and that once Debussy follows one masterful section with another that the listener 'buys into' the piece and after a while is sounds coherent, or are there compositional mechanisms I can't spot that he's using to make sure the piece actually works as a whole? I ask this as an aspiring composer currently sketching a piece with various sections that are not _that_ connected and that do not suggest a traditional large-form piece. But I'm afraid to trust my work to date to eventually lead to a coherent orchestral piece, yet need it to eventually be unified as a single piece - whether through (hopefully) robust writing and/or through intended mechanisms that help bind the piece (even though this will be difficult as the piece will start off quite textural but eventually become more melodic). Any 'overview' pointers to Debussy's La Mer that might reveal binding mechanisms will be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Kevin Nolan, Dublin, Ireland.