Jean Philippe Rameau

thethirdpoliceman,great links!! I am going to have a very good look at them,thanks Abracadabra,I've just gotten some amazing books: 'The complete musician' by Steven G Laitz, it's really,really impressive ,800 pages book with two dvd's of examples performed by a real orchestra! It's not video, just audio,but I think this is a miracle in itself because I don't know of any other book like it. This is a very serious course in classical music. Exceptional. It also comes with supplementary accessories,like workbooks and more DVDs !! But even as it is,there's enough stuff to keep someone busy for years. And that's not all....I have also gotten 'Tonal Harmony' by Stefan Kostka,that one too comes with CD's !!! Although the author gives you the choice to buy the book alone,if you so choose. And it's proper classical instruction,so it's really the best instruction anyone can get. These books are a though act to follow

Abracadabra,the best DVD's I came across as for now,are from Duane Shinn and Yoke Wong. Google the names and you'll find their sites. Duane Shinn has a shocking assortment of material. Like 300 different courses! I 've got Duane Shinn's 'Intro and Endings' dvd and it's very good! I am planning to get his 'Pro Secrets' course and his dvd on Modulations. To be honest,if I had the money,I'd buy them all. Also,from Yoke Wong I've got 'Christmas Arrangement'. Quite good too. It's a great idea to take these old folk songs as 'experiments'. If you already know about harmony, you can do quite a bit with these tunes,like different harmonizations,etc If you don't know much harmony,that's really the first thing I'd advise you learn about. Just google the names and you'll find the websites of these people. All in all,it's very good value for money. Many hours of instruction at a reasonable price. And they are the best I came across as for now.

Abracadabra,here's my advice. Bear in mind that I am not an advanced composer or anything like that,but whatever I learned,I learned from books,and it works,big time. My best advice is: lear how 'motivic development' works. How to make phrases out of one single idea. That one thing really projected me into creativity effectively,because you find yourself using the 'rules',but also your ear. I have learned that from a Paul Sturman's book called 'Harmony,melody and composition'. Yes,that's just a book,no cd or anything. Unfortunately I do not know of books like that ,that come with a cd. I understand what you mean about wanting to find a composition course on cd or dvd (or books with a cd) and I'll tell you,I have been looking for the same thing,for two years now. I didn't find them. The best I have found to date are the DVD courses by Duane Shinn. But they aren't coruses on composition,only on piano playing. Still,lots of good concepts that you CAN use in your compositions. But I'd say that they are useful only if you already know quite a lot of theory,otherwise the concepts could be too 'obscure'. I also prefer theory explained by classical textbooks. With jazz,the concepts are a bit too generalized. Anyways,you can learn from anyone,but I'd say this: don't wait for a DVD course,get started with the best books you can get hold of,like the ones written by Paul Sturman ,Stewart MacPherson (another very good teacher) or Walter Piston. You know,I even studied some of these books and actually recorded all the examples. You could do the same thing. Think about it: I know it looks fatiguing to watch at a piece of paper with notes written on,but once you record the examples,it will be a thrill to review quickly all the material studied. And you'll need to do that. Ultimately,to compose well,I think you need to know in detail : 1. Motivic development,how to build phrases,sentences,periods,and small forms (and I am still getting there!) 2. Harmony: how to use strong root progressions,how to use dissonances 3. Counterpoint ( and with that one, I got barely started at all,but I am sure a lot can be done with that skill). It would be good to have a nice,laid-out system on DVD,but I still could not find it,and I can't afford to wait. Maybe you can't either.

That's just a very generalized idea to say 'I can't explain much about creativity,and because it's a mystery to me as it is to you,I'll tell you that you either have it or you don't'. But the reality is that EVERYBODY has creativity. Look,it's very simple: there are people who don't need much instruction,and there are people who need it. This was actually said by Arnold Schoenberg in his book. He should know what's creativity,since he not only made a few important innovations on music,he also knew personally many masters like Mahler,Brahms,etc The ones who need instructions are not to be considered inferior. And also LOOKING for instruction,is not a sign of cluesness,it's a sign of strenght. So no point in saying things like 'it's down to YOU'. Of course it's down to you,who else? But that has nothing to do with wanting to learn good things from experienced people who wrote,in book format (or DVD format,etc) 30 years of experience in the world of music making. Like the OP said,he's just looking for the standard tools,the ones who were also learned by anyone,from Beethoven to John Williams. Or do you think that they just got to the piano one morning,as if by magic,and wrote their best stuff? That's just an idealization. Beethoven tore away many versions of his themes and melodies. So? This isn't a perfect world. Of course the great composers were very creative. But listen to the works by Mozart when he was 9 years old,and listen to his works when he was 25....I think you'll hear a difference. We are still talking about human beings. We are all here to learn,man....not everybody is born with perfect pitch. But everyone has creativity. For some of us,the road to create is a different one. That's why there are good books. They were written for people who have the balls and dedication to study them and applied what they learned. I am one of them,and sorry if I sound arrogant,but my own experience is that books and DVDs are great. I have studied them for years and at first it was hard to understand how to use what I was learning,but is now all coming togheter for me? You bet it is. I have learned from harmony books and I am glad I did,because I like to know how things work and how I can use them on command. And that's creativity as well.

'the above' :by that I meant the jazz textbook quotation,not the other user's

I am also having difficulty understanding this and am currently investigating...it seems that other than being the dominant of a dominant is also required to place them on strong beats. Here is what I find in a book: ''Dominant chords which are placed on a strong stress point will NOT sound as secondary dominants-etc'' The above seems to me a lot of cobblers,though. The above comes from a jazz textbook...these seem always far more messed up than classical textbooks which I actually understand better