Composing for Orchestra

Hello all, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

My question is: When did you (whoever is reading this) start composing for orchestra, if you have started doing so? In other words, what was it that made you feel like you knew enough about orchestration?

I ask because I really want to compose for orchestra - the prospect of so many tools at my disposal excites me - but my knowledge of orchestration is pretty low. Im okay with not composing for orchestra right now, but I'd like to have an idea of how much I should know before jumping into it headfirst.

Thanks and happy composing

Here is what I suggest doing:

1. Find a score that you greatly admire for the orchestration.

2. Buy it or borrow it from a library.

3. Buy manuscript paper.

4. Copy the score by hand.

5. Study the art of orchestration as you copy. (Instruments that are placed together playing the same notes; instruments used to play the different parts of phrases etc.)

Bach copied music to learn from it. (It also built up his own music library.) The great thing about copying is that you are getting a lesson in orchestration from whomever it is you are copying. Take notes as you go, either on your copy of the score or in a different notebook. This way you don't have to try and remember all that you learn and you can compare the styles of one composer against another very easily.

Of course, there are books about orchestration out there but if you can study with a master, why not?

Cheers.

Start low and small. That's my advice.

Going straight up to the orchestra will only result to something... confusing.

Try scoring for a small ensemble. Maybe even a duet. See the ideas you can get about timbre, dialogue, counterpoint, etc. Then move on to something else, a quartet, a quintet, etc. Move higher, and then when you feel comfortable just attempt the orchestra with something simple.

Unless you have an enormous mental capacity and ability to retain six or seven melodic lines in your head simultaneously, the first orchestral ensemble you should go for is an ultra-small classical orchestra - flute, oboe, bassoon, horn, and strings.

When you've managed to write a few little three or four minute divertimenti (or any other small orchestra piece, could be a fantasia, a cassation, or, if you like Schubert, a "musical moment"), you can start thinking about symphonies.

And then you can expand on your orchestrations. Winds can take on piccolo, flute, oboe, English horn, clarinet in Bb, bass clarinet, bassoon and contrabassoon.

Maybe not all at once, but in time.

I started with orchestration before I started composing my own stuff. Orchestration is my forte. My passion. HA! That was corny.

Anyways...I suggest reading some of the famous treatises. By Berlioz, Korsakoff, what not.

And be in an orchestra. You learn a LOT from being in the action.

I started with orchestration before I started composing my own stuff. Orchestration is my forte. My passion. HA! That was corny.

Anyways...I suggest reading some of the famous treatises. By Berlioz, Korsakoff, what not.

And be in an orchestra. You learn a LOT from being in the action.

I'll take that into Consideration. =)

Well if you want to orchestrate something, then you should not only take that into consideration, but do it! And listen to Leo. He's a noob-genious!

I started before I knew enough about orchestration. I can admit that. I feel experience is truly the best teacher. If the student fails to learn from experience, it's the fault of the student.

I agree with nikolas here, and add that textbooks help :ninja:

How about building up to orchestra by arranging classical music instead of composing first? I did a little of that. I took some piano pieces and arranged them for everything from string quartet and wind quintet to full orchestra and concert band.

I suggest you start with a piano part. If you don't play piano or don't know how to write for piano, just write the melody in the treble (or bass if you should prefer), and then write the chords in the other hand. I suggest you arpeggiate them.

I first started composing for orchestra about a year ago, and my most successful pieces started from the piano. From the piano, I could derive several parts, or groups as I often prefer. Sometimes I give the woodwind the melody, perhaps doubled with some String for tonal support, or perhaps I give the basses the melody and leave the remaining Strings providing support.

The magic comes from the fact that you are the composer. You can dictate what feelings you want to share with your music. Which, and I believe you'll all agree, is what music is all about.

Arranging genuine piano pieces for orchestra can be dangerous because of the challenge with assigning melodies to instruments in a way that is idiomatic (what the instrument would want to play).

For example, some excellent piano melodies are not going to work very well for a horn player.

For example, some excellent piano melodies are not going to work very well for a horn player.

*cringe* I can only imagine Lizt's Liebestraum ( the popular one ) arranged for ochestra and solo horn. That would be.... boring. It only works with piano, for which it is written.

And that is only the beginning. Think about this: I was introduced to a piece called Morceau de Concert by Saint-Sa