Bringing Together Classical and Popular Music

For an excellent description of classical music found in other genres:

:P

The problem with pop music (I use that as a reference to all popular music in any genre) is that it is so commercialized it becomes stale. The media is the reason why pop music continues to go down hill.

I believe any good musician/composer should draw from more then just classical and jazz roots. You get a good theory and technique background from classical and strong independence and creativity from jazz but there is more. You can get great rhythmic sense from an African and Latin background and you can get an understanding of tonal relations from an Oriental and Indian background.

I think the more you can incorporate different cultures and musical styles into your compositions the more people you can reach and the more popular its going to be. If popular music can once again become popular because its good and not commercial, then we will have mixed it together with more then just classical music.

I think the more you can incorporate different cultures and musical styles into your compositions the more people you can reach and the more popular its going to be.

If you toss every spice in your spice rack into the stew, it ends up tasting like nothing special (or worse... horrible!). It's when you carefully mix and match that the flavor comes out.

It's when you carefully mix and match that the flavor comes out.

Exactly! That was more what I was trying to convey. Write your own music in your own style with the knowledge you have gained from these different styles and cultures. The end result will probably sound nothing like those styles. They are just extra colors on your musical pallet.

There's a lot of music these days that's cross-over. Anthony Davis writes operas that are heavily jazz-based, like Amistad and Tania.

Here's a question often asked of composers: "Why do you do it? Classical music isn't really relevant anymore, is it?" For the first question, I suppose our answer is generally something like this: "because I love to, and I love the music."

But I've been thinking, why isn't classical/concert music more relevant? Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, Muse and many other major, respected, and popular new bands tightly integrate classical and romantic era elements into their work. In Radiohead's case, all the way down to something that could be transcribed and played by the pianist Christopher O'Reilly.

From musicians I've met in Chicago, it seems to me that there is a vacuum of knowledge of chord progressions, harmonization, orchestration, etc on the part of rock/indy/alt-rock/hip-hop/etc bands, and a glut of it on the part of us, the composers, who usually work in isolation.

Should composers be making more outreach into popular music? If so, what genres? How should we go about it? Are any other composers already doing it?

This is the viewpoint: Classical music can be evocative, but we want something fun and reflective of our inner nature; I wanna "Make it rain" on the basketball court, so I listen to rap - You get the idea. It has more to do with culture than with harmony. Classical music is "the Man".

I agree that atonality only captures the attention of extreme subjectivists such as myself - but then, if it was used in the next Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter movie, I bet it would become popular to a degree.

This is the viewpoint: Classical music can be evocative, but we want something fun and reflective of our inner nature; I wanna "Make it rain" on the basketball court, so I listen to rap - You get the idea. It has more to do with culture than with harmony. Classical music is "the Man".

Agreed. Though, Classical does seem to be fundamental to our natures: we whistle and sing tonally from an early age, and Mozart's orchestral music sounds crystalline and pleasant to just about everyone at any age. The trouble is that everyone grows up listening to rock, hip-hop, metal, etc, and don't get the listening skills they need to 'get' classical music.

I feel that in order for classical's unique possibilities and virtues to get 'on top' again, we as composers will have to deal with the fact that our audience got their early musical imprints from Metallica rather than Mozart -- and compose such that we are comprehensible to this new audience.

Agreed. Though, Classical does seem to be fundamental to our natures: we whistle and sing tonally from an early age, and Mozart's orchestral music sounds crystalline and pleasant to just about everyone at any age. The trouble is that everyone grows up listening to rock, hip-hop, metal, etc, and don't get the listening skills they need to 'get' classical music.

I feel that in order for classical's unique possibilities and virtues to get 'on top' again, we as composers will have to deal with the fact that our audience got their early musical imprints from Metallica rather than Mozart -- and compose such that we are comprehensible to this new audience.

Some people like sound. Some people besides sound, also like music.

it is completely relevant that especially in indie, there is a classical influence present

here are some of my favorite classically influenced recordings, mostly of past generations (in order of favorite, most-least)

Pet Sounds- The Beach Boys

SMiLE- Brian Wilson

Odessey And Oracle- The Zombies

Chicago II- Chcago

200 Motels- Frank Zappa

Sail Away- Randy Newman

The Look Of Love Collection- Burt Bacharach

Days Of Future Passed- The Moody Blues

In The Court Of The Crimson King- King Crimson

Close To The Edge- Yes

Song Cycle- Van Dyke Parks

For anyone interested in spicing up their pop music with some classical elements, I highly recommend the albums listed above by Stevemc. I added a few to the list

Brian Wilson:

Pet Sounds

Smiley Smile

Wild Honey

Van Dyke Parks:

Discover America

Song Cycle

Jump

Randy Newman:

12 Songs

Sail Away

Nilsson Sings Newman

Paul Simon (!!!):

Still Crazy After All These Years

Their Goes Rhymin' Simon

One Trick Pony

Other miscellaneous recommendations...

Harper's Bizzare (simon, newman, and parks all contributed heavily to the repetoire of this band early in their careers.. great production) :

Feelin Groovy

Anything Goes

Bob Dylan:

Self Portrait (Little sadie? Come on, that progression is freakin SWEET)

The soundtrack to "Fantastic Planet" is an example of music that blended film scoring with pop music...

Hope this helps!

-Ezra

Hot Rats.

Frank Zappa, hell yeah!

"Strictly Genteel" and "Uncle Meat" and "Jazz From Hell"

What annoys me about popular music is

• There is normally a melodic line and a bass line, and that is it (except for the drumbeat)
  
• Songs only last for three or four minutes
  
• All the instruments HAVE to be electric, again except for the drums
  
• There MUST be singing, otherwise it is not a real song
  
• Every drumbeat is the same
  
• It doesn't remain popular for very long
  
• The music is usually loud and lively, and not often quiet and lyrical
  

That is roughly in order, the first ones annoying me the most.

Just so you know, there's a lot of music out there that has all the traits you listed and is still excitingly fresh to listen to.

I myself, love classical music. It isn't "popular" but it is so prevelent that people seem to take it for granted. For instance, movies, tv shows, commercials, and even social events are permiated by the soft twang of classical music. Popularity aside, it is essential for all music in the western world to have some classical basis, even if it's just the chord progression.

That's my blurb on the matter.

I would say there is a "popular" category under any musical genre (including classical). How often do hear Carmina Burana being played in the background of war films? O Fortuna is a great piece but it gets old when you hear it all the time. I think that's the worst trait of any popular music. Once the media (radio, MTV) get a hold of it, it gets over played and anything new coming from the same composer/group, gets over produced and commercialized. That's also why you get so many new bands that sound exactly alike. I think that's just the nature of the beast.

I just don't listen to the radio. It works wonders. I'll listen to CBC radio 3 because I have yet to hear the same piece twice on it but everything else is out.

I'm pretty sure that I can still be "aroused" by O Fortuna.....

What annoys me about popular music is

• There is normally a melodic line and a bass line, and that is it (except for the drumbeat)
  
• Songs only last for three or four minutes
  
• All the instruments HAVE to be electric, again except for the drums
  
• There MUST be singing, otherwise it is not a real song
  
• Every drumbeat is the same
  
• It doesn't remain popular for very long
  
• The music is usually loud and lively, and not often quiet and lyrical
  

That is roughly in order, the first ones annoying me the most.

...AND there is a lot of popular music that does the exact opposite of what you've written here and is still extremely popular.