Conga & Bongo drum help needed

A friend of mind plays a set of Congas & Bongos. His set consists of two Congas (10” & 11”) and two bongos (6-1/2” & 7-1/2”).

I’d like to write music that includes his drum set but I have no clue how to write for these drums. Moreover my sheet music program doesn’t provide Congas or Bongos as a drum set option. It does contain quite a large variety of other drum sets though, as well as being fully programmable, but I’m not sure how to program it just yet.

So far I’ve been using a “TR808 Tom” in the sheet music program. This option provide a bass clef staff which seems to have the full range of sounds very similar to the conga/bongo set my friend has. So for the purpose of writing sheet music I think I can sneak by with the TR808 Tom option.

However, I’m wondering if anyone writes for Conga or Bongo drums and what type of score is commonly used. My friend doesn’t read music. He just plays by ear. However, if I can write the music, then he can listen to the mp3 and play whatever I write. He’s really good at playing by ear. He can reproduce almost anything he hears almost precisely. So I’m not worried about writing it for him to read, I’m more concerned about how to write it so that it sounds good when played by the sheet music program.

However it would be nice to write it correct if there is such a standard for these types of hand-drums.

Does anyone write any kind of hand-drum music? Conga, bongo, Djembe? Anything like that?

I would love to view any midis or pdfs you might have that contain this type of drum music to see how you went about writing it.

Well, if you had Finale, I could help you with this a little more, but you didn't mention what program you use. Melody Assistant?

Anyways, I've seen conga and bongo parts written on both five-line staves, and single-line staves. I kinda like the single-line staves myself, so each player gets a seperate stave. A set of bongos, the note above the line would obviously be the higher drum. Since you want to write for both bongos and congos in one set, what you would probably do is have a normal five-line stave with a neutral clef, and have the top two spaces be upper and lower bongo, and the lower two being upper and lower conga. That way, as you go up the stave, it's a higher pitched drum. As far as notating the different strokes and stuff like that, you'll have to choose to do whatever you prefer. Different people have different ways of writing the same stroke, whether it being a different notehead or a letter above the note. I like using different noteheads, like the following:

How the different hand drum strokes are notated: Conga Key Notation

A basic beat in a percussion section (notation): http://www.lpmusic.com/Play_Like_A_Pro/Lessons_From_Pros/images/son-notation/son-8.gif

Thanks for the quick reply and info James.

I've been trying some stuff with the "TR808 Tom" drum in my sheet music program since it seems to have the closest sound that I'm looking for.

I chose the following notation simply because it seems to work sound-wise, and I like the clean-looking diamond-shaped note heads I chose. I can also spit the stems when convenient with the conga stems facing down and the bongo stems facing up. I already have an exception to that convention in measure 3 because I felt it would be too confusing to split the stems in that measure. I’m going to try to get this drummer to read this score at least in a rudimentary way (i.e. knowing which drums I’d like him to be playing these beats on). I’m sure he’ll use the audio for the actual timing, but this score might be helpful in communicating which drums I’d like him to play certain parts on.

You can see in the first measure the two congas represented in the lower staff, and the bongos represented above the staff. I chose their position mainly for the sounds that the TR808 Tom drum makes in those positions. I also wanted to avoid having note heads right on a line. So this seems to be working. The bongos and congas are well separated to avoid confusion.

Here is a little score I wrote (poor drumming I know!)

Here's a link for the small mp3 of this (only 68 K)

http://www.csonline.net/designer/ideas/congas.mp3

There a little bass guitar run in the beginning not shown on the score.

What do you think? Would a professional percussionist find this notation acceptable? It works in my sheet music program and looks clean and easy to read to me (assuming the congas and bongos are labeled in the first measure)

I also found the following web site with a hand-drum generator on it for anyone else interested in writing hand-drum beats.

(this page has a lot of beats that can be played in his generator and downloaded as midi files)

Jas's-- Middle Eastern Rhythms FAQ (for dumbec, doumbec, doumbek, arabic tabla, darabuka, tombak, zarb ...) : Rhythms for Dumbek and Belly Dance

(this is the actual generator)

Jas's -- MIDI Hand Drum Rhythm Generator

It’s pretty interesting site. He has his own notation for his drum generator program. I downloaded some midi files from his generator. He seems to be using a “Hi Q” drum set? At least that’s what it’s labeled when I open it with Melody Assistant.

I think I like this “TR808 Tom” better though for my purposes. Whatever a “TR808 Tom” is? It seems to emulate a set of congas and bongos pretty good.

I would still like to find hand-drum midi files.

Even though I seem to have made some progress with my sheet music program since I started this thread, I would still be interested in hearing hand-drum midi files others may have written. I’ve been searching the Internet for hand-drum midi files with no luck yet.

I did find Jas’s Hand-Drum Rhythm Generator which is great. But I am still interested in any other hand-drum resourses, particularly in a midi format that I can load into my sheet music program and exam.

Bongos Congas and MALLETS!

From a performance perspective I’m wondering if anyone out there uses mallets or “timpani sticks” to play congas, and/or bongos.

I ask because I’m thinking about getting a set of congas and bongos myself, but I think I’d do better with mallets than by hand. So I’m curious if anyone uses mallets on these types of drums.

My friend plays these drums by hand, but he says that some people do use mallets or “timpani sticks” on these types of drums. So I’d be interested to hear from anyone who actually does this, or who has seen them played this way.

I can tell you that what you have there is completely impossible to play with the instruments you describe.

I recommend you read this page: New free bongo lessons pete lockett

It has information on playing bongos, and the different sounds that are used commonly, and a few examples. There is also a page on that site about conga playing, I'm sure you'll be able to find it :D

I'll warn you, it'll be bloody difficult to get anything your friend can listen to and imitate from a computer, unless you're using good quality samples, as I've found midi and most soundfont bongos and congas sound nothing like real ones.

I'll warn you, it'll be bloody difficult to get anything your friend can listen to and imitate from a computer

I expect as much. Not only with the drummer, but with the rhythm guitarist as well. I find it impossible to program fancy “strumming” into sheet music. I could never program a midi to sound as good as I can play the guitar.

I wouldn’t want my drummer friend to try to emulate a midi precisely. He’ll sound MUCH BETTER live I’m sure. He’s a really great drummer and has a fantastic sense of beat and rhythm. I know that anything I write in sheet music is going to pale in comparison to what he can do live.

However, that isn’t going to stop me from trying to write score as close to the real world as is possible.

And I agree that what I wrote probably isn’t playable, although I’m not sure why not? As much as I hate to admit this, I have set up some pots and pans here to get an idea of what it would be like to hit the differnet heads. I can actually play what I wrote on the pots and pans so I’m not sure why it couldn’t be played on real drums.

In fact, I typically like to play whatever I write as I compose it. This is one reason why I’d like to get the drums myself. Although I might have a tendency to play them with timpani sticks and what I play with the mallets may not be able to be emulated by hand?

I have a very poor sense of rhythm, beat, and meter so I’m thinking that getting some percussion experience would help with that.

Believe it or not, your thread a while back about buying a set of Bongos was partly responsible for sparking my interested in bongos and congas. And now after hearing my friend play I’m even more driven to learn some percussion instruments. Are you aware that your actions in this world affect the behavior of others! :D

I would love to have a chromatic percussion instrument too like marimba, but alas I can’t afford one!

Hey that’s a great link! Thanks mark. Unfortunately I’m on dial up so I’ll have to pass on the videos for now, but I can painstakingly download the mp3s at least. I see he even mentions playing bongos with sticks right on the front page. I wouldn’t want to use regular drumsticks, but timpani-type mallets sound good to me.

What do you think of this DVD?

Amazon.com: 101 Drum Circle Rhythms: DVD: SL Ratigan

I’m thinking about buying this DVD and maybe a cheap set of bongos just to start with.

Of course this DVD is all hand-drumming, but I imagine I could experiment with mallets too. I might actually prefer hand-drumming once I get used to it, I’m just drawn to the idea of mallets for some reason. They seem to be what I’d intuitively like to use.

I'm told that The Bongo Book is good, and I know for a fact it has a very good section on bongo notation. How about getting your friend to improvise, and then learning how to notate it, and notating it after? Then you get the fire and excitment of a live improvising musician, and don't have to worry about notation until afterwards.

Please post when you've made any progress :D

How about getting your friend to improvise, and then learning how to notate it, and notating it after? Then you get the fire and excitment of a live improvising musician, and don't have to worry about notation until afterwards.

That's basically what I am doing.

This is why I'm interested in viewing midis of similar drum beats to see how other people have notated it.

In this case it's almost "backward composition", I'm trying to figure out how to notate in a midi what my friend can already play live.

However, whilst I'm at it, it would be nice to be able to learn to write drum score that might at least convey the general idea of what I'd like him to improvise.

Basically my friends are asking me to write some music and we'll get together to play it. We have a lead guitar, a rhythm guitar, and bass guitar, and the bongo/congas. (Just a for fun backyard jamming) But I'd like to write music that is designed specificaly for this instrument combo. I might play a little clarinet or trumpet or banjo in there too once in a while too instead of lead guitar.

But it would be cool to have some nice drum rhtyms in the sheet music and mp3s too. Once we learn the stuff we can record it live.

I've been downloading those mp3 bongo lessons on the link you provided. They are pretty good. Unfortunately I don't have a set of bongos yet to try the lessons on.

I’m thinking about buying these inexpensive $30 Pulse bongos just to get my toe in the water for now. They have really great reviews on several different sites.

If I do well with them I may move up to a much more expensive complete set of Schalloch drums (almost $400 with shipping!)

That’s down the road a bit depending on how well I do with the Pulse Bongos.

I’m still liking the idea of using timpani-style mallets though, especially when playing the full four-drum set. It just seems to me that I could articulate better with mallets than by hand. But until I actually try this I can’t really know. I just know that intuitively I’m feeling like I could really get into the feel of timpani sticks.

In fact, I was originally interested in timpani drums, but I think this conga/bongo set would be more versatile for a small group. So I guess I’m actually looking at these as a form of make-shift timpani for small ensembles. :D

But seriously, I could see using these in several different types of ensembles from jazz, to rock, to various forms of ethnic music, to even classical accompaniment. I could end up incorporating these as my standard percussion instrument in many compositions. Especially with the additional use of mallets. I think mallets are going to produce different effects than hands. Not saying one is better than the other, just different.

You won't have nearly as much flexibility of tone and sound playing with mallets, they're made for playing with hands, and sound best when done so :)

You won't have nearly as much flexibility of tone and sound playing with mallets, they're made for playing with hands, and sound best when done so :)

I totally agree with you on that.

I’ll never get the rich ethnical fullness and expression playing with mallets that can be achieved by hand drumming. And I’m sure that many purists would frown on the idea of using mallets.

None-the-less I just feel a strong intuitive desire to play with mallets. That desire may be quenched when I actually try to do it. But I’d still like to give it a shot.

Playing with mallets is not going to produce the same type of ethnic sounds that hand-drumming is noted for. But at the same time I think that a lot can be done with mallets. The key is in having some really great mallets that are really well-balanced and have a great feel to them.

I think even with mallets a person is going to have a wide range of tonality based on where the skins are struck. I also think that there will be certain runs and rhythms that mallets can produce that could not be produced by hand. This is especially true when moving from one drum to another. I think a person could play all four drums with closer temporal proximity with mallets than by hand. So whilst using mallets will be quite different from hand-drumming I think they will also offer their own unique sounds.

If I get to the point where I’m good enough to warrant buying the full set of drums I’m sure I’ll be learning both hand-drumming and mallet-drumming techniques. I’m actually looking for a particular sound and I think the sound that I’m personally seeking might be better produced by mallets. I confess that this is entirely a guess on my part at this stage. But like I say, I just have a strong intuitive desire to try it.

It certainly can’t hurt to experiment.

By the way, I’ve downloaded all of the mp3 lessons on Pete’s site that you linked too. Both the Bongo and the Conga drum lessons. I’m hoping to download the videos of those lessons over on the college computers later.

Although, I have to say that none of the rhythms that Pete has offered on that site are really what I’m looking for. They are great hand-drumming, but as I say, I think the sound I’m actually after is more likely to be found by playing the drums with mallets.

One might argue that I should just go with a standard drum set then, and perhaps tom-toms with mallets would suffice as well. However, the sound I’m seeking I think is half-way between hand-drumming and traditional stick drumming.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I’m kind of seeking something similar to timpani, only not so profoundly deep-throated. I just have a good feeling that the sound I’m seeking can be produced by congas and bongos played with mallets. Obviously I could be wrong. This is an experiment on my part.

Only time will tell now.

I haven’t even ordered the little set of bongos yet. I might shop around for some mallets first. Selecting the correct mallets with the correct feel may be the most difficult part of this whole process. I’m thinking that I might even need to make up my own mallets. The mallets need to be PERFECT.

Which bongos did you buy?

My marching band has a pit section, which is the percussion instruments that can't march on the football field for a show. This includes marimbas, toms, and yes, hand drums. For the added volume of outdoor playing, especially with a marching band, we play them with mallets. It is a lot louder and the tone is very consistant. Also, playing with mallets, you can articulate rudiments just like a snare drummer would. The mallets we use I think are light yard covered mallets, like those for vibes. We also use (better) a type of drumstick that is a regular drumstick on one end, and a perfect felt covered butt. Vic Firth American Custom SD6 and SD 12 Swizzles are examples of these hybrid sticks, see here -> Vic Firth American Custom

This includes marimbas,…

I would love to play around with a marimba, but they are far too expensive. I’m actually thinking about building my own make-shift marimba. I have a metal shop and I could do this. The only real problem is finding the time to do everything I’d like to do! :)

I live near a college and I’m thinking of maybe trying to get a student to build one for me. Like we go half on the material. The student uses my tools and maybe some shop instruction on my part. Builds two marimbas, takes one home and leaves the other. I have all the tools that would be necessary to build one.

If actually using hand-drums with hands in a band like you're talking about, the drums will HAVE to be micced and amplified, because some of the techniques used when using one's hands are rather subtle and can be easily lost.

This is true, and I’m not really looking for the ethnic sound anyway. At least not all the time. There may be pieces that would be played buy hand. Especially if the accompanying instruments are all acoustical.

On getting a pair of drums, I don't think quality is that much of a big deal. As long as they don't sound crummy or break easily.

I’m thinking along these lines too. Those Shalloch drums have really great reviews on several sites. Many people are raving over them as being far superior for their price range. Very heavy-duty and produce deep full-bodied sound. However, they aren’t exactly cheap at close to $400 (with shipping)

Harmony actually makes a conga drum for only $39. Surprisingly it has good reviews too! Trouble is they only make one size. I was actually wondering if I could get a pair of those for $80 and get away with simply tuning them differently? At $40 a piece that “tuning” could even include physical reworking the drums themselves to a point. That’s quite a savings and definitely something I’m thinking about.

In other words, as a non-professional like yourself, I would say an expensive set isn't really worth it unless you have the money to throw around, the differences are menial.

I’m neither a professional musician, nor do I have money to throw around. But I am stupid enough to spend what little I have unwisely! :D

It's not like getting a violin which though is in good condition, sounds like crap. Just get what will make you happy.

I actually have quite a few violins. The most expensive one cost $200 used (just for the violin, no case or bow). Unfortunately it’s not my favorite! The one I like to play the best only cost $80 brand new with case and bow. It’s actually a pretty nice violin for the price! And ironically, I think my best-sounding violin only cost $50 new with case and bow! But it doesn’t “feel” as good to play as the $80 violin for some reason. I really should buy the cheaper drums, and put the big bucks into a nicer violin.

I think I'll make a midi of some bongo and congas together, like you asked. I'll post it tomorrow or something, I'm busy tonight.

That’ll be cool. I’m going to try to write some better stuff myself.

And yes, representing hand drums in midi is almost pointless,… In midi, there are only three sounds for each bongos and congas: 'hi', 'low', and 'mute'.

I’m not worried about trying to emulate hand-drumming. I’m more interested in trying to emulate the “tones” of a four-drum bongo/conga configuration. I was messing with it a little bit last night and discovered that I actually have an articulation that works on drum notes. It’s an inverted sforzando articulation and notates as a little “vee” above the note. The midi player recognizes it and plays that particular beat a little louder than otherwise. So this will allow me to actually easily create accented beats on each drum head.

I thought about this when looking at the score in the link that Mark provided. The fellow there places a small symbol above accented beats. So I looked in my sheet music program and found the inverted sfozando dynamic that actually plays as midi. And it works on the drum score! So this is cool.

Now if I can shut up long enough to go write music everything will be just find. :D

MILLENIUM BONGO SET NATUR - U.K. International Cyberstore

That's a nice heavy-duty looking set.

How do they sound? Have you learned how to play them yet?

About a live performance?

Can you record a short mp3 for us?

I'm all ears! :D

P.S. I'm on dial-up. Have mercy and record it in mono at 56kbps. :)

Ok, I’ve changed some things around a bit, and I think I’m pretty happy with the results.

There were problems associated with the TR808 Tom drum set so I had to abandon it.

I’ve decided to go with a standard drum set, and use the bongos and the tom drums there.

I’ve changed the notation around a bit too. Here’s my new scheme with a beat I just made up. I like the sound of this, especially in the mp3 with slight reverb. It gives a nice full-bodied hollow sound to the drums.

Here’s my new notation:

I’m using high and mid toms for the congas.

Here’s a midi that doesn’t sound too bad considering it is a midi. (only 2 KB)

Beat 101 midi

Here’s the mp3 with with a much fully sound (127 KB)

Beat 101 mp3

I’m happy with the score and the sound. Now I just need to get some real drums to play with. :D

At least now I can start using this drum set in my pieces. I might add some other percussion as well, such as wooden clappers, and other possible chimes or cymbals that I can actually incorporate into the actual drum set.

I like to write for stuff I actually have laying around the house. :)

I'm just a hobbyist and I do this stuff for fun. :D

I'll get the bongos and congas eventually even if I have to settle for cheap ones.

That's a nice heavy-duty looking set.

How do they sound? Have you learned how to play them yet?

About a live performance?

Can you record a short mp3 for us?

I'm all ears! :D

P.S. I'm on dial-up. Have mercy and record it in mono at 56kbps. :)

I have learned most of the techniques, and am just working on increasing my vocabulary now.

They sound extremely good actually, I shall have a pop, see if I can get a decent sound with the crappy mic I have :D