Limitations of the staff notation system

We need a notation system we can taste.

Ha ha ha...That's awesome! I'm going to bake a F minor pie with each slice being a different note and every new taste is an accidental.

(Make sure the oven is set to 95 bpm so as not to rush the cooking)

Sex in the fridge my friend.... sex in the fridge.

Well, don't get yer you-know-what stuck on the ice-box. I'm told that removing it can be quite painful. The limitations...or short-comings...of your staff might become very apparent.

:huh:

I'd say that sheet music is among the best possible systems for conveying musical ideas to performers. If it's got a shortcoming, it's in the performers themselves: they don't read it.

If you're talking about sheet music's fitness for communicating 'what to play' to the musician, it works very well for those who've had the training necessary to read what you write. Whatever can't be written (odd timings, slight disconnects between instruments, "be more dreamy") can be communicated by the composer either verbally or in a recording.

But most musicians these days, certainly the ones with the ear of the public, are more likely not to read sheet music whatsoever than to be able to. So, you've got to know how to write guitar tabs, how to just say what you want, and how to work it out parts with the musician -- this is especially true when working with drummers and singers. Most rock musicians can't read sheet music in the least -- they expect chord progressions and a basic idea of the rhythmic 'gist' of the piece, broken up into the usual fragments of a rock song: intro, chorus, verse, bridge, etc.

Hip hop or manufactured pop? Best to know software: Logic, Ableton, Reason, because you won't really have performers.

It's like that joke: How do you get a guitarist to stop playing? Put some music in front of him.

I think the greatness of the notation system has been proven in this thread and I think everyone knows it due to the fact that its the only universal one we have. So instead of trying to prove the notation system is has no flaws, let's invent new notation styles like "a system we can taste".

I once wrote a piece for a choir of static. I recorded television static and tweaked the frequencies to get my desired notes. Needless to say it ended up sounding like crap however, I created it's a notation system to go along with the piece. I printed out a grid with the wave forms of the different static notes. Each grid was a measure and each wave form had a different color representing its corresponding note. The whole thing ended up being a complete failure but at least it was fun.

By the way, I think guitar tablature was the worst possible thing to be invented for guitar. It has made so many guitarists worse musicians then they could be by not forcing them to learn to read music.

By the way, I think guitar tablature was the worst possible thing to be invented for guitar. It has made so many guitarists worse musicians then they could be by not forcing them to learn to read music.

Honestly I don't think it does anything one way or the other. Those guitarists who do not learn to read music probably wouldn't even if there were no tablature systems. And even if they did, who says they would be better musicians? Most dedicated musicians will learn no matter what, many dedicated musicians won't and get along fine, and bad musicians will remain bad musicians.

If a musician can't read music, they are going to have a very hard time finding paying gigs. Tablature can't teach you rhythm and is basically only good for learning and playing rock songs. Many guitarists are to lazy to learn to read music (as are many other musicians not just guitarists) and if there was no tablature many of them would good enough to figure things out alone. The same goes for drummers, my parents forced me to learn to read music by playing percussion before I ever sat down behind a drum set and I think I'm a better musician because of it. Your right, "bad musicians will remain bad musicians" but a least you give yourself a chance if you learn to read music.

I've seen tabs with the rhythm written out underneath which I thought was pretty clever.

Tablature can't teach you rhythm and is basically only good for learning and playing rock songs.

If we want to be really fair here, really, no. Just about all lute music from, well, the times when lute music was written, is preserved in tablature form. Usually with rhythm notated, like Tumababa says (except usually above the staff, I think). Just about all of Buxtehude's organ music comes down to us only as German organ tablature. So tablature systems are not exclusive to rock. Nor are they inherently unable to be more advanced. Have a look at this neat Bach fugue for lute.

If we leave aside the arguments about lazy rock musicians avoiding staff notation, tablature as a notation system really has its merits. And its flaws. Just like staff notation.

If we want to be really fair here, really, no. Just about all lute music from, well, the times when lute music was written, is preserved in tablature form. Usually with rhythm notated, like Tumababa says (except usually above the staff, I think). Just about all of Buxtehude's organ music comes down to us only as German organ tablature. So tablature systems are not exclusive to rock. Nor are they inherently unable to be more advanced. Have a look at this neat Bach fugue for lute.

If we leave aside the arguments about lazy rock musicians avoiding staff notation, tablature as a notation system really has its merits. And its flaws. Just like staff notation.

True, but how many classical guitarists do you see who know how to play from tabs but don't know how to read music. Tablature in that respect was only meant as a short hand like figured bass notation for organ. Also, to be able to read rhythms, you need to know how to read music otherwise those rhythmic notations will mean nothing to you.

One can easily understand rhythms and possibly be able to read music but not be able to sight read. I did, for all the time before I started playing classical guitar.

One can easily understand rhythms and possibly be able to read music but not be able to sight read. I did, for all the time before I started playing classical guitar.

This is all true, especially for drummers and percussionists but this is my point. For most guitarists nowadays if you learned to play guitar from tablature and guitar is you first instrument, I doubt you would have any knowledge on how to read rhythms. Tablature might be useful in some instances but it should not be a replacement to learning to read music. I came from a classical percussion background and I think rhythms are the hardest part in learning to read music. You could be a perfect sight reader but you will always need to improve on rhythm reading.

That seems strange, I've never had any problem with rhythm at all, and can tap any rhythm I see written on a page or anything, yet most of the people I know who are also musicians have appalling senses of rhythm, which I just can't understand. :angry:

It probably has something to do with the instrument as well just not doing the right practicing.

I don't know since I don't pay any of these instruments but it might be harder to play correct rhythms if you have to blow into instrument then just bow, strike or press a key.

I would say rhythms are 60% or more of reading music. I have no doubt that you have no trouble with rhythm but you are a minority in the music community in that respect.

...yet most of the people I know who are also musicians have appalling senses of rhythm

Just one pianist, but also loads of guitarists, although they're mostly idiots and can hardly be called musicians, and various other instrumentalists.

I was surfing online and found this lovely snippet regarding extended techniques that I thought would also be highly relevant to this topic.

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A NOTE ABOUT 'EXTENDED TECHNIQUES'

This User's Manual always prefers to show the orchestra as it is rather than as it could be, as is most clearly the case when considering 'extended techniques'. There are several books which set out to catalogue the available extended techniques on each instrument, and these are referenced as appropriate. However, a viewing of the video clips on the various instrument pages will reveal an enormous variation in player abilities and attitudes to these techniques, ranging from enthusiastic engagement to downright hostility. This manual is perhaps unusual in that it simply reflects these limitations as they are encountered, rather than trying to be comprehensive about the available techniques regardless of the player's opinions.

(found at User's Manual: Introduction)

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(emphasis mine)