It seems to me that this composer is not very appreciated by people of the now.

Prove me wrong?

Richard Wagner is a huge influence on me. And of my greatest influences he has inspired them to write music.

Go on you tube or any other sources you may have and type in Wagner and just listen to his themes. He had the most brilliant ideas out of anyone I have ever heard.

I own all his literature AND all of his music. This man knew so much about music. Just like how some of us can compose without real theory, Wagner it seems developed so many of the ideas needed to write a recognized and accredited masterpiece. This man really knew what he was talking about. If I could meet one man from the past It would have to be Richard Wagner. Beethoven was the ultimate influence on Wagner. His attidute towards music and why it is written far exceeds methods of common harmony.

Please someone tell me he is atleast one of your favorite composers. I'd love to tell you more and more about him.

Orchestral trombonists love Wagner... ...it's so...loud.

My roommate in college loved Wagner. He was an orchestral trombonist.

I still have "Ride of the Valkyries" in my head.

Yea I've never played the trombone but I can see why they love his music. I guess every composer has a specialty not necessarily instrumentwise either.

I hate his vocal writing. It's ridiculous, unnatural, and silly.

There, I said it.

Flame me.

Ha ha. I won't. Wagner's the King of the supernatural.

Too bad sapphire is suspended.

The only reason I dislike Wagner is that every time I hear his music, it reminds me of Sapphire...

You spend too much time thinking about Sapphire, then :musicwhistle:....

I Wagner vocal wise, its so hard to sing!!!!

Other than that, I dont mind him, not my favorite

You spend too much time thinking about Sapphire, then :musicwhistle:....

:glare:

fixed...

I do not like Wagner at all.

I've actually never met anyone who likes Wagner in real life so I'm going to assume that anyone who posts here saying they like him is a figment of my imagination.

ZING!

mmm... wagner. tastes so delicious.

I don't really like him too much...

was doing harmonic analysis of Tristan and Isolde yesterday :cool:

I'll admit that I don't mind Wagner. He was a control freak, and the perfectionist parts of me can appreciate that. :)

Wagner's ok. But he would have been much better if he cut his operas.

Wager is a genius, I love his work. Elsa's procession to the cathedral...:D

Wagner is easily the ultimate genius among composers, though not artistically.

First of all, on the vocal comments, Wagner's music is only hard to sing because the orchestra is so big. If you were to just sing it with a piano accompaniment, it is probably the best for the voice. He uses each part of the range so that each end refreshes the other. Most other composers, especially Mozart, I would consider complete numbnuts when it comes to vocal writing. Wagner's vocal scores do not include "G6's" or "D2's", or the florid vocal lines in Rossini or whatever.

I don't know if enough can be said about Wagner harmonically. Plenty of people and composers have heard Wagner, and subsequently had their mind in a whirl, their world changed forever. Puccini, Mahler, Richard Strauss, Holst to name a few.

Frequently, the word "majestic" is used to describe his music. And this doesn't necessarily mean it sounds good - Wagner said something to the effect of "Wagner - the man whose music is better than it sounds." Wagner and Liszt did away with the concept of a poetic idea as music, and instead wrote music that inspires self-remembrance, the way a "majestic" figure in nature would remind you how small you are in comparison to the vast and infinite universe. His music is the beginning of harmony that has an element of the cosmic in it, as opposed to insignificant ideas about human emotion, or some other ephemeral, cosmopilitan thing. That alot of his music does sound really good is besides the point.

Probably most importantly is his use of the mythology ingrained in the subconcious, as the way to self-remembrance. In one of the many archetypes that his harmonies suggest in the subconcious, this musical/mythological symbol can give you the feeling of "Yes..that's me!", and ANYTHING you do can be related to this center of truth, of this primal mythology - although this is sort of contradictory since it can't be conceptualized. The myth/music points past itself, into a ground of meaning, that is one with your conciousness. More importantly, through his cosmic harmony and mythology gives the potential for realization of the mystery dimension. This, I feel, is where self-remembrance comes from.

Wagner's music is symbolic, not of any pre-conceived idea, such as socialism or fascism. But of the eternal truths that are ingrained in the subconcious.

Someone mentioned Wagner being a "control freak". Wagner did have the neuroticism of having to have control over others and the environment, who felt he had to change the world in some profound way.

He was upset by the idea of creation - his Rheingold prelude blatanlty suggests a world that was already there. This, other than his unfriendliness with Jewish composers, I believe is the foundation for his anti-semitism.

OF COURSE Wagner isn't liked by people currently. What do we live in? A globally materialistic society that lacks anything past economic concerns. That last thing anyone is concerned with, is how magnificent the universe is. They want the stock market, they read about murder and scandal and upsets and politics, the only thing they strive for is their OWN salvation through material ends. They are excited about what team wins the football game -- what car they can afford, what college they can get into. The spiritual dimension has been rejected.

Not that this is a bad thing, it's just why Wagner isn't liked as much as music that gives immediate pleasure, like Mozart.

There are shreds of the Wagnerian ideas still alive today though - we see it in Star Wars and stuff - the reason people like Star Wars, is why Wagner is so incredible - it brings the subconcious into view, and makes you aware of the mystery dimension.

Wagner is above all of you.

Gotta love the man...

this thread is seriously the funniest thing I've read in a LONG time

Most other composers, especially Mozart, I would consider complete numbnuts when it comes to vocal writing.

Ahahahaha hahah a :D

OF COURSE Wagner isn't liked by people currently. What do we live in? A globally materialistic society that lacks anything past economic concerns. That last thing anyone is concerned with, is how magnificent the universe is. They want the stock market, [blablabla] The spiritual dimension has been rejected.

Wow, I've heard of generalisations, but you managed to generalise EVERYONE there... nice.. Also, if it applied to Wagner, why not other composers? Or is Wagner the only "spiritually in touch" composer? ahahahaha :laugh:

the reason people like Star Wars, is why Wagner is so incredible

:D

This post is gold.

Congrats. I'm actually speechless. At first I thought you were joking. I mean, "cosmic harmonies"? You've got to be kidding me.

I suppose it would be fruitless to get into an argument with a guy whose alias is Wagner about how much I'm unable to appreciate The Ring Cycle. However, your post is so absolutely out to lunch that I can't possibly stay away.

Mozart a numbnut when it comes to vocal writing? Wow. That is such an amazingly insane statement that my first thought was that you mistyped something. Either that or you're talking about some other "John Mozart" who lives in upstate New York that I've never heard of.

I used to think that people who liked Wagner were just more able to grasp all musics. I figured they had a more open mind than me and could appreciate everything from Bach, Mozart, Wagner, Zappa, Zorn and beyond. Now I'm thinking that maybe they're just insane. Not insane in the conventional sense mind you, because most people who burn down buildings can still rationally go to the store for a carton of milk. I'm think of insane in the way one of us would seem to the general populace if we turned up on their planet where the dominant musical stylings consisted of slight oscillations to sine waves punctuated by the sound of space-arctic-baboons farting through cardboard.

I can acknowledge that Wagner had lots of great ideas but man.... I simply must be a less evolved specimen than most Wagner fans out there.

The mystery dimension statement threw me for a loop as well. You sort of sound like one of those polygamist cultists that live in rural BC.

I mean.... cosmic harmony? Come on...

Wagner is easily the ultimate genius among composers, though not artistically.

First of all, on the vocal comments, Wagner's music is only hard to sing because the orchestra is so big. If you were to just sing it with a piano accompaniment, it is probably the best for the voice. He uses each part of the range so that each end refreshes the other. Most other composers, especially Mozart, I would consider complete numbnuts when it comes to vocal writing. Wagner's vocal scores do not include "G6's" or "D2's", or the florid vocal lines in Rossini or whatever.

I don't know if enough can be said about Wagner harmonically. Plenty of people and composers have heard Wagner, and subsequently had their mind in a whirl, their world changed forever. Puccini, Mahler, Richard Strauss, Holst to name a few.

Frequently, the word "majestic" is used to describe his music. And this doesn't necessarily mean it sounds good - Wagner said something to the effect of "Wagner - the man whose music is better than it sounds." Wagner and Liszt did away with the concept of a poetic idea as music, and instead wrote music that inspires self-remembrance, the way a "majestic" figure in nature would remind you how small you are in comparison to the vast and infinite universe. His music is the beginning of harmony that has an element of the cosmic in it, as opposed to insignificant ideas about human emotion, or some other ephemeral, cosmopilitan thing. That alot of his music does sound really good is besides the point.

Probably most importantly is his use of the mythology ingrained in the subconcious, as the way to self-remembrance. In one of the many archetypes that his harmonies suggest in the subconcious, this musical/mythological symbol can give you the feeling of "Yes..that's me!", and ANYTHING you do can be related to this center of truth, of this primal mythology - although this is sort of contradictory since it can't be conceptualized. The myth/music points past itself, into a ground of meaning, that is one with your conciousness. More importantly, through his cosmic harmony and mythology gives the potential for realization of the mystery dimension. This, I feel, is where self-remembrance comes from.

Wagner's music is symbolic, not of any pre-conceived idea, such as socialism or fascism. But of the eternal truths that are ingrained in the subconcious.

Someone mentioned Wagner being a "control freak". Wagner did have the neuroticism of having to have control over others and the environment, who felt he had to change the world in some profound way.

He was upset by the idea of creation - his Rheingold prelude blatanlty suggests a world that was already there. This, other than his unfriendliness with Jewish composers, I believe is the foundation for his anti-semitism.

OF COURSE Wagner isn't liked by people currently. What do we live in? A globally materialistic society that lacks anything past economic concerns. That last thing anyone is concerned with, is how magnificent the universe is. They want the stock market, they read about murder and scandal and upsets and politics, the only thing they strive for is their OWN salvation through material ends. They are excited about what team wins the football game -- what car they can afford, what college they can get into. The spiritual dimension has been rejected.

Not that this is a bad thing, it's just why Wagner isn't liked as much as music that gives immediate pleasure, like Mozart.

There are shreds of the Wagnerian ideas still alive today though - we see it in Star Wars and stuff - the reason people like Star Wars, is why Wagner is so incredible - it brings the subconcious into view, and makes you aware of the mystery dimension.

Wagner is above all of you.

him i tihnk 'Wagner' is a bit biased and therefore should be dismissed :p

and on the note of this topic, i can't say i like wagner very much :/