String advice needed.

I

create a single 1st violin part that has 4 staves.

this way you ASSURE that there are no screw ups and somehow that 4th violin part never gets handed out.

Also, if a group is incapable of really executing the 4-part divisi, they will find a way of arranging it from within that 1st violin part.

4-part divisi... dangerous territory there, Flint.

create a single 1st violin part that has 4 staves.

Thanks, QC... I was afraid of that. I dislike placing multiple staff systems on parts unless absolutely necessary.

4-part divisi... dangerous territory there, Flint.

Oh yes, I know. :)

The piece is not incredibly intricate - I'm working with some sound masses (somewhat similar to Ligeti's 'Atmospheres' but mostly tonal) and I want the clusters to seem to move around the ensemble.

I'll try to post a sample within the next week or two!

hmmm...

when I was writing exeliksis (and producing the scores) I already knew the exact numbers (6-6-5-5-2) and so I wrote it specially for such ensemble of strings. Since I was treating each string player individually (so div. a 6 for the 1st violins for example) I made parts for each desk, corresponding to what THEY and only THEY played. Otherwise each part would have 6 staves, and would be mosterous big with problems on turn pages...

So I'd actually advice the opposite to what QCC said. 1-2 staves at most for each part. If you know the number of desks of course.

I suppose I could always do both (both sets of parts). Since I'm not a string player, I was hoping one would enlighten me as to what they usually encounter.

As far as number of players, I haven't decided at this point. Right now I'm thinking 12-12-10-10-6, but that may change as I get farther along.

I think the difference between Niko's work and what Flint is asking about is that Niko's piece was for a very specific number of instruments.

While Flint's, correct me if I'm wrong, is simply a piece for strings with passages in large divisi.

I can understand the need for how Niko treated the materials for his string piece. And yes, 6 staves IS a bit big for a player part. However, I will stick by my advice to put the divisi in a single part as much as possible, particularly if the piece is not one for a "set" number of instrumentalists. bandying about different parts for "violin 1-1" then "violin 1-2" and so on WILL get very confusing for the musicians.

At worst, if there are really lengthy sections with divisi a4, I would suggest you create at most two distinct parts per section (ie: violin 1-1, and 1-2, then violin 2-1, and 2-2, etc...) each with two staves included.

I agree with QCcowboy's statements. With us violinists, you need to keep it as simple as possible. :toothygrin:

I've been working on this and trying to get it into Finale but have come upon some issues that are delaying the process. I'm hoping to have a scratch score to share by the weekend so I can get some feedback!

I did finalize the instrumentation to 12-12-10-10-6 (50 players exactly) and have divided the strings by stand (yes, there are parts where the 24 violins have 24 different -but related- parts. Yes, I am insane.) Right now I am trying to figure out how to make the score legible without having to resort to more than 6 staves per section.

It sounds really complicated, but it's not... I swear!!

And yes, as indicated previously, I am insane.

BORK BORK BORK! :cool:

If they play by stand, then you get 6 div for 1st violins, no? In that case you just need up to 6, or less. If the lines are easier to play, maybe have 2 layers and have 2 stands per staff.

It would be worth looking at my score for exeliksis (6-6-5-5-2) where they are treated per performer, and not per stand (thus again 6 staves per section, etc).

www.nikolas-sideris.com/stuff/exeliksis.pdf

Divisi starts from page 5.

Is it any helpful, or you need something else that I don't understand clearly?

Thanks, Nikolas, I will definitely take a look at your score tonight when I get home from work.

One issue is that at one point, I've got the outside players on 4 stands playing a sustained slightly rhythmic cluster while the inside players on the same 4 stands are playing arpeggiated rhythmic figures in the same range. I'm thinking to put the outside players on one or two staves (to make the chord clear) and then putting the inside players on their own individual staves for that section.

It'll be easier to show than explain. ;)