Trumpet vs. Trombone?

And as flint mentioned, it does take time and patience to work it up. Can't blow like Maynard in the first month.

I did. I hit screaming G above high C in just a little over a month. Day after that though..... ow. Don't do what I did. ;) Kills your lips, and if you're not supporting right, your throat too, because the tendency is to try and squeeze the air out of the lungs from the throat. That's why thinking of using the diaphragm instead helps everything. In other words, don't push yourself. Just press on. Oh yeah, speaking of pressing, always be aware of your mouthpiece pressure, keep it as minimal as possible. If you ever get a red ring on your lips from pressing too hard, that's means... well... you're pressing too hard. So don't. Becomes a bad habit, so avoid it before it becomes one.

Anyways, if you can't play that high, don't try. Build up to it. If you can reach the E just fine, then play around with some chromatic scales going up to and down from the F right above it. Don't move on to F# until you're comfortable with the F, and so on. It's all about extending your range, not trying to squeeze your way up there.

Wow you did, tell me how you did it, that's what I need to be able to do. Highest I can get is middle F and I can't even hit that well.

I hurt myself, that's what I did. :P And that's what you shouldn't do. That's extra bad. You can pull muscles doing those kinda stunts. So that's why you need to be careful and extend your range the right way.

I hurt myself, that's what I did. :P And that's what you shouldn't do. That's extra bad. You can pull muscles doing those kinda stunts. So that's why you need to be careful and extend your range the right way.

And that is?

Trying to play to high and I pulled a muscle in my throat. I'm not exactly sure how that works, but improper breath support was definitely a factor. This pain persisted for about two weeks. It quit hurting after a week, but I still couldn't play because I would get a jab of pain. Also, I did something along the lines or tearing my lip. Again, not sure how this works. I didn't literally tear my lip, but I think I caused some tissue damage from a variety of factors, and for over a week I couldn't play, every note wouldn't sound clearly, it was like my lip was divided into two separate vibrating parts instead of one central aperture. The result: all I could play for a week were wookie calls. I think they call this a loss of the 'sweet spot'. Your sweet spot is right where you sound best, sometimes center of lips, for others it's off-center. Well anyways, apparently you can lose it.

By the way, just as few extra words:

PS. To all the young high note seeking players out there. If you use bad form for long enough, you WILL hurt yourself. It’s just a matter of time. I know, I did it. My lip popped during a 3 hr gig, 2-3 shows a day for 8 days. Small mouthpiece, bad mechanics and pop. There goes 25 years of investment and fun. I now just hang on to lower parts, still looking for the sweet spot, which is gone.

Freddie Hubbard once developed a sore on his lip as a result of playing a high note cutting contest with Jon Faddis ( not a very bright idea) without warming up. Then, he continued playing on it until it became infected. He required surgery, and his facility on the trumpet was greatly impaired.

Also, as a side note, if you are experiencing cold weather, be sure to begin every session with a very careful warm up. Cold weather causes muscles to contract, so you need to warm up using flexibilities exercises, such a lip slurs. Start softly, lower end. Then warm up the tongue, slowly and easily. After that you can do whatever you want - practice pieces, concentrate of something specific, like extending the range upward, ect. But warm ups are important, especially in cold weather, which causes muscles to stiffen.

Also, as a side note, if you are experiencing cold weather, be sure to begin every session with a very careful warm up. Cold weather causes muscles to contract, so you need to warm up using flexibilities exercises, such a lip slurs. Start softly, lower end. Then warm up the tongue, slowly and easily. After that you can do whatever you want - practice pieces, concentrate of something specific, like extending the range upward, ect. But warm ups are important, especially in cold weather, which causes muscles to stiffen.

Warm up is the most important. I spend roughly 55-65% of my practice time warming up. Focuses your sound, and gets you ready. And be sure to re-warm up after a break. Gotta walk before you jog...before you run a marathon.

Warm up is the most important. I spend roughly 55-65% of my practice time warming up. Focuses your sound, and gets you ready. And be sure to re-warm up after a break. Gotta walk before you jog...before you run a marathon.

:toothygrin:

I changed my embouchure a bit more than a year ago(not nice, but it was neccisary, and the results are worth it! ), and it took me almost 2 months before I could even reach top C again, so don't be hasty, give it time and it will come.

Warm-ups, and PROPER warm-ups are very important, they make sure you don't hurt your lips.

I'm not sure if the guy who started this post is still checking it but I have a few questions. First off how long have you been playing/attempting to play trumpet?

Secondly, why the obsession with playing high notes, all this talk about playing at least an F or a G in high school band... maybe if you're playing the first or second parts.

I've been playing trumpet for almost ten years now and the most comfortable note I play is probably an E above the treble clef staff, granted I've always played the solo book in Big Band.

Anyways if you could answer those few questions maybe I could help out more.

The higher the note, the more air you'll need. Now I just need to extend my range to 3 and a half octaves - it's at three octaves at the moment. At the best of moments.

Ok, so here are some things to work on to develop range/ trumpet playing in general:

First off, the warm up....

So people have been talking about the warm up but what exactly do we do in the warm up?

to properly warm up you need more than just ten minutes before band to warm up, I'd set aside at least an hour to go through everything. First thing to start off with is some simple mouthpiece buzzing. start off with whatever note comes out when you start buzzing. then do the "siren" effect. basically make the sound a ambulance siren makes, you want the sounds to be continuous, no leaps in the pitch. do this at a piano dynamic, soft playing is good in the beginning. also take breaks often when you feel like you're getting tired stop and take a break, the purpose of the warm up is not to tire, its to warm up. if you're buzzing properly you should get a tingling sensation in your embouchure. After you've done that pick up the trumpet and take out the tuning slide, put the mouthpiece in and buzz on the leadpipe for the same amount of time. This is giving you some back pressure, so the buzzing should sound better. Again keep this at a soft comfortable dynamic. the pitch should be somewhere around a G on the treble staff. while you're working on this think about being able to control the pitches and sound, if you want a higher note think about moving the air faster. If you're a visual person this would be like putting your thumb over a water hose, makes the water move faster, same concept with you're tongue and the air. if you push the air faster through the abs and arc the tongue the air will be even faster. again do the leadpipe buzzing until you feel comfortable, not tired or strained, if you do get to that point, walk away from the horn and take a break, maybe work on a piece you're writing. Come back and put the tuning slide back in the trumpet and start playing some long tones. if you can play a G on the staff then start there if not work where its most comfortable. If it is a g then you play the g at a piano dynamic for at long as you can comfortably. work down the horn Chromatically ex. G, F#, F, E, etc. For all of these exercises by the way you are not tonguing, its what is sometimes called a "pu" articulation. again if you start to feel tired, take a break. ok next exercise is the first exercise in the clarke technical book. basically its a chromatic exercise that works the entire range of the horn. starting on F# on the staff play chromatically up to C (which is your problem note i think) remember when you're doing this to think faster air when you ascend towards the C, you can add a slight crescendo and decrescendo when going up and down the exercise. as always do this at a nice soft comfortable dynamic. after you play starting on F#, do the exercise up a half step starting on G, so you'll play chromatically from G to C#, then go down to F, and play the exercise from F to B, then go up to Ab and play from Ab to D, etc. do this for as high as you can go. remember your thinking faster air when ascending to higher notes. By now you should be feeling pretty tingly and warmed up. Now its time to initiate the tongue. Start on a note somewhere in the middle of your range and tongue using the syllable "tu" tongue the note four times working on a consistent and even attack, there should not be a burst of air when you articulate. when you articulate the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th notes the air should not stop. if they do you're closing off your throat or stopping the sound completely, this is not what you want. After you've gotten the jist of that play a scale doing the same thing, play a Cmaj scale up the octave tonging each pitch four times, working on attack and consistency. this should give you a fair amount to work up (i'm tired and i have class tomorrow) DO THIS EVERYDAY.. and you'll start to feel/hear the results with time, be patient if something doesn't work try not to get frustrated, remember to use the air and you'll be fine. higher notes= faster air and a higher arched tongue. I'll update this hopefully tomorrow.

P.S before you do everything mentioned you have to work on the breathing. The tuba professor at my uni. studied with arnold jacobs.. a god of everything tuba and breathing related. a very easily exercise he gave in a masterclass is the darth vader (sp?) breath. basically you make and L with your thumb and index finger and put your thumb under your chin so that your index finger is over your mouth. take a deep breath and make the darth vader sound, the throat should not close and you should feel the air around your lips when you inhale. work on this stuff and you should start improving. when you breath do not think about using your diaphragm, you have absolutely no control over this muscle, and anyone that says you do has no clue as to what they're talking about, its an involuntary muscle involved in breathing. Hope this helps good luck with trumpet playing, I also recommend getting a couple of legit cds of some players to start to get a particular sound that you can emulate. Phil Smith is a great player to listen to.

when you breath do not think about using your diaphragm, you have absolutely no control over this muscle, and anyone that says you do has no clue as to what they're talking about, its an involuntary muscle involved in breathing.

I'm glad someone brought this up; the diaphragm idea is one of the most prevalent and misleading misconceptions in wind instrument pedagogy. Not to say that support does not come from your lower stomach/abdominal area, but to blame it on the diaphragm is inaccurate

Claude Gordon was one of the most successful trumpet players of all time and re-wrote the books on how to play the darn thing. That being said, he's not always totally correct, and sometimes other methods work a bit better for different people, but 9/10 times, the Claude Gordon method can work wonders; but not quickly. There is no method out there that will increase your range to a high C in any 'short' amount of time, but there are several that will get you there correctly, strongly, and effectively. Patrick Hession, possibly the greatest high note player alive today (RIP Maynard), has a method out, too. There's also The Balanced Embouchure which is very popular and so must be somewhat effective.

There's a wealth of places to learn from; get a teacher, and practice your guts out. There is no stronger correlation than that which exists between practice time and results. The trumpet, IMO, is the most flexible of the brass family; it can soar over the big band, speak for the combo, and champion the hero in a symphony. On the other hand, it can also make fun horse whinnies. :toothygrin: That's my pitch for the trumpet.

hehehe to be perfectly honest the trombone is easier than it looks, i would like to pretend that it is incredibly difficult to play and i'm a genious because i can...but that's not the case. In some ways intonation is actually easier because with a small adjustment of the slide you can change the note to be perfect wheras when a valve is down it is down, no in between. i would go withthe trombone. and in terms of jazz (if thats your area) there are a lot of fun things to do with the slide.

hehehe to be perfectly honest the trombone is easier than it looks.... In some ways intonation is actually easier because with a small adjustment of the slide you can change the note to be perfect...

One you really get into playing seriously - you'll realize that your statements are inaccurate...

:whistling:

The higher the note, the more air you'll need.

Hm, that's interesting. Either this is a fundamental difference between the trumpet and the horn, or something else is different with me. On the horn I need more air the lower the note is. High notes require a good support from your body and higher tension, but since the lips are stiffer and narrower less air passes through. As long as my lips don't tire I can hold a very high note much longer than a very low note.

I actually studied with Claude Gordon for ten years and have the most complete website on the man. There are currently over 20 hours of free lectures of Dr. Claude Gordon online along with some articles I wrote to summarize my ten years with him and how to apply his principles to using all the various great method books.

I also teach Online Trumpet Lessons over live video chat. There are some comments on my site from students studying all over the world. This way of practicing really works for anyone.

Here are some links to look at:

Trumpet Performance and Brass Instruction Studio via Live Internet Video Chat

Trumpet And Brass Playing Articles Based On The Claude Gordon Method Of Brass Playing

Trumpet Performance and Brass Instruction Studio via Live Internet Video Chat

Jeff

Trumpet And Brass Lessons Done Over Live Video Chat By Jeff Purtle, Authority On The Claude Gordon Method Of Brass Playing

864-292-3532 in Greenville, South Carolina

AIM/iChat Handle: ac6iw

Wow... some interesting views in those articles... I'm reading now... some I like, some I question.

" Make no more than 3 attempts for the highest note. “Three Strikes And Out!”-CG

This can either start or end the practice routine, but you must rest 60 minutes after."

Hmm, maybe I'll apply this. I just did now, I only tried to hit above high E three times. ;)

" Correct practice of Pedal Tones will help this develop."

But if only I could practice pedal tones correctly... do they need to be in tune? Is it the same embouchure as I use to play in my middle range?

" Alternate fingerings must be practiced to develop all fingers equally."

Umm... really? I've never heard that one.

" Blow stronger(crescendo) when ascending, lighter when descending. Only after proper development of strength should decrescendos on ascending notes be worked on."

And how do we know we're ready to move on to the ascending descrec.?

" “Aww” for lower notes, “Eee” in front area of tongue and

blow stronger for higher notes.

Every note has a specific level for the tongue."

I think this is vital... good advice.

" “The very tip of the tongue will naturally take a position back of the lower teeth. Never allow it to strike back of the upper teeth.” - Liberati

Incorrect tonguing results in more movement of the tongue and a disruption of the arched tongue’s air flow, thereby causing slow tonguing speed, inaccuracy and lack of ease in the high register."

Never? My tongue touches my upper teeth and I can still single tongue 16ths at around 130 BPM ... I would hardly call that "slow."

" The right hand of the French Horn supports the weight

and controls pitch and sound."

This I disagree with. How can the right hand manipulate pitch and tone while it is holding the weight of the horn? So this view here discourages the resting of the bell on the knee/leg? There is no way to have decent control of the sound unless the hand is free to move, contrary to holding the horn. In a standing position, maybe, but when sitting, I believe the hand should NOT support the weight of the horn, as I have seen in many professional players.

" “Stay away from mirrors!” - CG Never mind what you look like."

This one might ruffle a few feathers, but I see the point, and a good one it is.

I found a good few bits of advice in here, and I'm only on the second page. I will surely incorporate some of these into my practice sessions. It is a tremendous help seeing these "rules" laid out in front of me, as I don't have a private teacher to do that for me. Thank you for the links.

Either this is a fundamental difference between the trumpet and the horn, or something else is different with me. On the horn I need more air the lower the note is. High notes require a good support from your body and higher tension, but since the lips are stiffer and narrower less air passes through. As long as my lips don't tire I can hold a very high note much longer than a very low note.

trumpet strumpet!

no trombones..jut listen to it...trom BONE!

...low notes seem to blow very easily, it is almost like I need more air than I expect. Notes like high C, on the other hand, I can hold forever, just sitting there, it seems like I need hardly any air....

Don't think in terms of more or less; think faster and slower. Upper register requires faster, harder air; while low register needs slower, warmer air.

..................

no trombones..jut listen to it...trom BONE!

:huh: What?