Hans Zimmer

what are peoples thoughts on this man? Incase you don't know him, he composed the music for the film Gladiator (among hundreds more) and he is self taught = ergo genius

I can sum up my opinion in the following word: meh.

Don't dismiss him outright.... you could also say: ho hum.

self taught <> ergo genious.

At least for me.

Other than that, can't say that I enjoy his music, but it certainly works to the films he scores. So why not? :D

Some nice, catchy tunes, but... meh, indeed.

self taught <> ergo genious.

I find it interesting that some musicians seem to "poo poo" on other composers. I'm not pointing out anyone here, but actually going off of past experiences. I had one composer that just HATED Danny Elfman. Called the man a "hack".

While Zimmer may not be my favorite composer, he has been able to get his material used in a wide variety of films and that, in itself, is a feat!

It is just like George Lucas. I'm not a major fan but I always point out that Lucas did create an empire of movies, video games and IP. To the people that rip him apart all of the time- what have they done? :)

Again, I'm not pointing this towards anyone in the forums here, just making an observation. I have heard of some hollywood composers stealing music from others...or reusing material....but I haven't looked into much to be honest.

actually, no, Zimmer has been "able to get other composers with more talent to work themes into films FOR HIM".

Zimmer has always worked from a "company" for his scores. Which is actually one of the reasons now that Hollywood are insisting in their contracts with him that HE be the composer if his name is to appear in the credits. It is too widely known that he has gotten others to compose for him in teh past.

And it's silly to chastise composers for having opinions about other composers.

As for his music?

Well, like a lot of people here, I'm rather "meh" about it.

It's nothing to do with jealousy. It's a complete lack of interest in the sort of music he writes. It leaves me indifferent. It is of no interest. You can't accus me of being jealous of something I would NOT wish to have written myself.

I am MOST DEFINATELY jealous of John Williams, or Jerry Goldsmith, or James Newton Howard.

And I also feel pretty "meh" about Danny Elfman. The man is self-taught, and to my ear, it sounds like it. He's improving with time (thankfully), but still, I generally recognize his scores after a few notes because they have that "Elfman sound".

Are you referring to ghost writing? Because if you are, many of the hollywood composers have used this method. I don't think it is particularily fair- after I've done some ghost writing myself- but it is common.

"And it's silly to chastise composers for having opinions about other composers."

"You can't accus me of being jealous of something I would NOT wish to have written myself."

I'm not chastising other composers for their opinions, I'm saying keep everything in perspective. Landing a hollywood movie is a major feat, one that few have been able to do...but would all love to! And where did this jealousy issue come from? Please don't put words in my mouth, I never accused anyone of being jealous. You missed where I stated several times- this comment has nothing to do with forum members here.

"And I also feel pretty "meh" about Danny Elfman. The man is self-taught, and to my ear, it sounds like it. He's improving with time (thankfully), but still, I generally recognize his scores after a few notes because they have that "Elfman sound"."

John Williams has his own sound as well. Granted, it may have more range than Elfman, but I can pick out a Williams score just as easily as I can an Elfman score. It is their personal fingerprint on their music and having one isn't a bad thing as long as it is kept in balance.

I have my own sound, as I'm sure you do as well. My point is you can write off Elfman or Zimmer's music because you feel they don't have talent or because the music doesn't please you. What you cannot do is ignore the fact that they've been able to accomplish what many composers (young and old) are trying to do: write music for hollywood movies. Have you accomplished this? Have I? I can't speak for you, but I have yet to accomplish this...but I'm working on it. ;) This is why I, at least, respect them!

Actually, I'd have to disagree on a small point... I really want nothing to do with film music. I can enjoy listening to some of it - some of it is just plain fantastic!

But as for my own music? Nah, not interested, I prefer the concert stage with living musicians. :)

I'll let others have their opinions.

Sure, of course not all composers want to be film composers...but many do. I love playing with live musicians as well! :) I'm actually trying to form a new jazz combo for fun. I played in one for about 7 years and had a blast, but we all moved to different cities.

Flint, what type of music to do you?

I prefer to write music for winds (i.e., concert band/wind ensemble) or chamber/mixed ensembles, with the rare orchestral work.

:thumbsup:

I have my own sound, as I'm sure you do as well. My point is you can write off Elfman or Zimmer's music because you feel they don't have talent or because the music doesn't please you. What you cannot do is ignore the fact that they've been able to accomplish what many composers (young and old) are trying to do: write music for hollywood movies. Have you accomplished this? Have I? I can't speak for you, but I have yet to accomplish this...but I'm working on it. ;) This is why I, at least, respect them!

Since I did post here before you I do think I should repost.

While I see what you mean, I doubt anyone here is bashing hugely on Zimmer. I mean, ok he's there, he's done that, etc, but we do reserve the right to not like his music.

After all his music, is hugely in contact with the films he writes for, and it is highly difficult to work on it's own. This is the kind of film music he writes.

I personally used to love Danny Elfman, but after 15+ movies, I did grow tired of his same style all the time. Absolutely nothing wrong again.

Williams? The guy, at least, knows what he's doing blastignly well! And I do enjoy his music, not that I haven't goten a bit tired of some stuff. But he has plenty of variations to what he does, and although he's been talked about stealing Stravinsky and Malher, heck, everyone (including me and you) does it. big deal!

I do have to admit though, that I do dislike zimmer and Elfman, for one very good reason.

All 18 year old pricks, would love to be composers, and because these two have made it as "self taught" (which is a bit bullshit when you have a team on your side), everyone thinks that they can do it. Thus they go about knowing almost nothing, which can be almost an insult to people who know what they're doing! (actually I don't mind personally. I find that even DJs make music, and there's been a thread in NSS about this sort of thing).

But when you try to feedback someone, and he goes "I'm self-taugh=ergo genious" I get some immediate stomach flu and wish to vomit.

It is pretty much the same argument about many people:

1. Beethoven was deaf and still wrote music! Dissadvantage but... he did it

2. someone aged 12 (now 17!:D) is making music. Dissadvantage compared to adults, but... he did it.

3. Someone is self taught and still wrote music! Dissadvantage but... he did it.

Meh about this thing already. (and I have used the Beethoven argument, to his advantage btw. :))

But when you try to feedback someone, and he goes "I'm self-taugh=ergo genious" I get some immediate stomach flu and wish to vomit.

K. :rolleyes:

To be fair, I think a lot of it boils down to ego and a lack of being able to objectively accept criticism. That's endemic in society today (I can only speak for the US, of course) due to children being misguidedly taught that their opinions are more important than facts... the whole idiotic self-esteem movement and what-not (everyone gets a trophy, even if they lost! Congratulations!). It's probably more apparent in music due to the confidence/ego required to write music in the first place.

Kind of like when someone says they've gotten their music performed, therefore they can ignore your feedback on the notation, even if the notation is FUBAR. I'm thinking, "Great, some ensemble saw past the crap notation you used, are you expecting everyone else to do the same, to revel in your 'greatness'?"

K. :rolleyes:

I wasn't really talking about that. Just for the record. :)

To be fair, I think a lot of it boils down to ego and a lack of being able to objectively accept criticism. That's endemic in society today (I can only speak for the US, of course) due to children being misguidedly taught that their opinions are more important than facts... the whole idiotic self-esteem movement and what-not (everyone gets a trophy, even if they lost! Congratulations!). It's probably more apparent in music due to the confidence/ego required to write music in the first place.

I don't think that this is USA only, I do see it in the UK as well as in Greece and every other country I see really. :) you're not alone

I wasn't really talking about that. Just for the record. :)

Don't EVEN get me started on the whole "Everyone wins and gets a trophy" situation! I used to teach elementary school a few years back and always combated that stupid notion. LOL It is just a disservice to our children. Sorry, off topic...but just wanted to respond to that.

and Nathan, the "jealousy" comment was not in response to you.. if you notice, I was covering a number of points from different people in my post :)

Ah, then no harm, no foul. :) (Blows whistle) Game on!

Just to add fuel to the fire,

I wouldn't get so worked up about how some composers seem to "make it" in film music. From my experience, there's no real merit there. Most of the directors I've met, or had the displeasure of working with, have had next to no musical experience or knowledge. Getting hired by a director really does not mean very much anymore. Getting re-hired by the same director over and over means even less.

Very few directors actually have a good sense of how music fits into a film. Spielberg is one of an elite few with a profound understanding of this. And you might notice that he has yet to use Zimmer for any of his films. To me, that is more indicative of Zimmer's true worth than anything else.

There.

/puts away bottle of flaming fuel.

Have fun.

I love this topic of discussion!

About Danny Elfman, however - he is not merely 'self-taught'! He wrote all the songs, played rhythm guitar and sang lead in his band Oingo Boingo (hence my handle) from the late 70's to 1995, when his movie composing career started to really take flight.

But you simply cannot ignore the sheer quantity of quality music he put out in those 20-odd years in the highly eclectic and hard to define 'new wave' band! He wrote every single one of those songs (except for the odd cover) and the lead guitarist Steve Bartek (who is now and always has been Danny's orchestrator, relying on only a couple of orchestration classes here and there!) made the horn arrangements. That's a lot of music!

Don't tell me a composer can't learn from writing countless songs in the span of 20 years! Elfman did everything by his own will and his own creativity! He never went to college because he moved to France and played the violin right after high school! He learned so much about music through travelling and trying out EVERYTHING! If that plus the thousand songs he wrote are not equal to or greater than 4/6 years in a stuffy music school, then something's wrong here!

My point is just that 'self-taught' seems to have a very negative connotation when used by critical minds, even though what he has learned has been very valuable to him as a musician. And I don't agree that his music has changed much... He was already 35 or so when he got his first major motion picture commission, from Tim Burton!

Okay, so my question to you would be: How much better would Elfman's music be if he studied music instead of wasting time 'trying everything out'? (Another "why re-invent the wheel?" discussion...)

86: When self taught is being used as an argument, it can be a bit negative.

Other than that I remember Elfman in Batman (Tim Barton) or even more in Beatlejuice or something (if this is his, btw) so this is 20 odd years already. Don't see him changed all that much ;)

actually, no, Zimmer has been "able to get other composers with more talent to work themes into films FOR HIM".

Zimmer has always worked from a "company" for his scores. Which is actually one of the reasons now that Hollywood are insisting in their contracts with him that HE be the composer if his name is to appear in the credits. It is too widely known that he has gotten others to compose for him in teh past.

And it's silly to chastise composers for having opinions about other composers.

As for his music?

Well, like a lot of people here, I'm rather "meh" about it.

It's nothing to do with jealousy. It's a complete lack of interest in the sort of music he writes. It leaves me indifferent. It is of no interest. You can't accus me of being jealous of something I would NOT wish to have written myself.

I am MOST DEFINATELY jealous of John Williams, or Jerry Goldsmith, or

ahh you see to me john williams and zimmer both seem to have similar...hmm how to put it, movie-to-score-to? like the drama of star wars and gladiator, but still, all the same, i've forgoten my point :sleeping:

Just to add fuel to the fire,

I wouldn't get so worked up about how some composers seem to "make it" in film music. From my experience, there's no real merit there. Most of the directors I've met, or had the displeasure of working with, have had next to no musical experience or knowledge. Getting hired by a director really does not mean very much anymore. Getting re-hired by the same director over and over means even less.

Very few directors actually have a good sense of how music fits into a film. Spielberg is one of an elite few with a profound understanding of this. And you might notice that he has yet to use Zimmer for any of his films. To me, that is more indicative of Zimmer's true worth than anything else.

There.

/puts away bottle of flaming fuel.

Have fun.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! can you honestly say, hand on heart, the score for gladiator doesn't fit perfectly?!?! :O:O:O:O