Hans Zimmer

Wow!

I think SOME people are jumping to some pretty hasty conclusion.

I don't give a rat's donkey if Zimmer is "self-taught". It makes no difference either way as to whether or not I will like or dislike his music.

I don't care for his music.

See? I didn't even know he was "self-taught", I just don't care for the music he writes.

When I walk into a movie theater, and the opening credits start, and I see "Music by Hans Zimmer", I groan, because I KNOW the music will just grate on my nerves. And I have yet to be "disappointed" by Mr. Zimmer. He has lived down to my expectations every time. As a matter of fact, he has even surpassed them in some cases.

Is it snobbism that I don't like his music?

Is it because I have a graduate degree in composition?

Hell, I don't even think I could "do better"... I HATE writing film music, so I certainly wouldn't have my heart in it.

It doesn't really matter that I don't care for his music, does it?

No matter what technical elements that particularly bother me in his music I might point out, the fan boys will STILL drool all over his scores. So it's not like I HAVE to justify why I don't like his music.

Parallel 5ths in diatonic music bug me, they grate on my nerves, they SOUND wrong to me.

Parallel step-motion harmony grates on my nerves, it sounds cheezy to me, it sounds like cheap uneducated pop music to me.

Overused taiko drums and bombastic poorly orchestrated brass chorales grate on my nerves, they make me think that "more noise should cover up the errors".

There, I stated my opinion, now screw off if you don't agree.

Why the hell should people who LOVE his music be the only ones allowed to state their opinions? I'm not saying anyone else should hate his music. I couldn't care LESS if others love his stuff.

But PLEASE stop going on that anyone who hates his music is a snob, or is jealous, or has some ulterior motive.

I'm going to google Zbigniw Preisner right now and learn something about him. I know nothing of him!

Any other good ones to check out?

Preisner should be enough for some weeks/months...

Damn, how can these Polish composers be so good?

[/back to the topic]

Focusing on the music, my opinion is 'meh'.

Why doesn't anybody discuss other self-taught composers who make beautiful music (Zbigniw Preisner, for example)?

Listening right now- this is beautiful! And I think even more of him because he is self taught! Thanks for sharing!

I'm glad you liked it...be sure to check out la double vie de Veronique, Trois Couleurs - Bleu, Dekalog and his requiem...

Poisonous music...

But why?

I mean, in the end, isn't it all music?

A. self taught: A great achievement to write such beautiful music (I love Preisner...)

B. Studied for 30 years: Another great achievement, such dedication.

C. Worked on a single work for 7 years, his masterpiece. WOW a great achievement.

All the above are correct or not correct. But all equally. ;)

Thing is that in the end, if I listen a single loop that sounds good and someone who's used it for 10 minutes (which CAN happen), and it sounds good, then... yay! No matter who the composer is. Don't care about how much effort was put into it (don't care to know, keep this in mind), don't care if the guy is blind, deaf, autistic, married(!), whatever. Don't care if the guy has a postdoct. from 3 different universities.

The above as a listener.

Cause for me personally, I do believe that the more effort I put, and the more dedication I put the better work will I create. And I think that it does show (and to be totally honest, I can spot when someone is... hasty in his compositions. Not talking about totally high level, but I suspect that you too, Nathan, can see if someone did something in a couple of hours, or wasted a few weeks of his life).

Anyways, sorry for carrying on with this... :)

Wow, uh....I wasn't even writing to you. But let me respond to your points:

I don't give a rat's donkey if Zimmer is "self-taught". It makes no difference either way as to whether or not I will like or dislike his music.

I completely agree with you here! This is the main point I'm trying to make. I'm not a Zimmer fanboy, I'm only hoping to raise the debate about a composer's music and worth beyond his educational status.

There, I stated my opinion, now screw off if you don't agree.

Wow, how nice of you. What a shining example of acceptance for other's opinions and feelings. You can disagree with me all you want, I'll never tell you to screw off. I'm not like that.

Why the hell should people who LOVE his music be the only ones allowed to state their opinions?

Never said others couldn't voice their opinions. I only asked to provide more reasons besides he is self taught. Being self taught doesn't automatically mean your music will be better. This is proven by the incredible music of Mr. Preisner. It is well done, may not be everyone's cup of tea but it is good music...to my ears. No, it is EXCELLENT music!

But PLEASE stop going on that anyone who hates his music is a snob, or is jealous, or has some ulterior motive.

I never called anyone a snob or is jealous or has some ulterior motive. Why do you keep insisting on saying I am; I'm not.

When I walk into a movie theater, and the opening credits start, and I see "Music by Hans Zimmer", I groan, because I KNOW the music will just grate on my nerves. And I have yet to be "disappointed" by Mr. Zimmer. He has lived down to my expectations every time. As a matter of fact, he has even surpassed them in some cases.

This shows that you already have some biased feelings towards his work, so the question begs to be asked: how objective can you really be if you're "groaning" even before your hear the completed work. At least withhold final judgement until the work is complete and then make your verdict.

I think SOME people are jumping to some pretty hasty conclusion.

I think you're guilty of doing this as well, based on the quoted sections of your message and my responses.

Well, Mr Zimmer is in the film writing industry, it's not a music industry where your level is judged by the musical structure and crap. His music is meant for movie-fitting, backing up emotions you get from a movie. Not what chords he use and how he progresses with them, or however musical analysts try to break down music to criticize.

Whoever came up with the notion that he was self-taught should look into this, I have a gut feeling this is not entirely true. And I don't care if he was trained or self-taught. He's successful now, many people love him and he's created a genre of film music that's pretty much his trademark, that's all that matters. And I respect him.

And I agree with Nathan, QCCowboy, you need to chill man. It's not "overused" taiko drums... if you listen carefully, the percussion sound composition (physical terminology here, not music composition) that he uses is very intriguing. It's not all just Taiko Drums and Bass Drums which is a common misconception towards the Remote Control Production guys. And there seems to be this other misused term "Orchestration". Orchestration isn't a universal standard. So there really isn't "poor orchestration" or "great orchetration". It depends on what you do. You obviously don't agree with his orchestration which makes sense because you're not fond of music writing for films.

Wow, uh....I wasn't even writing to you. But let me respond to your points:

I completely agree with you here! This is the main point I'm trying to make. I'm not a Zimmer fanboy, I'm only hoping to raise the debate about a composer's music and worth beyond his educational status.

Wow, how nice of you. What a shining example of acceptance for other's opinions and feelings. You can disagree with me all you want, I'll never tell you to screw off. I'm not like that.

Never said others couldn't voice their opinions. I only asked to provide more reasons besides he is self taught. Being self taught doesn't automatically mean your music will be better. This is proven by the incredible music of Mr. Preisner. It is well done, may not be everyone's cup of tea but it is good music...to my ears. No, it is EXCELLENT music!

I never called anyone a snob or is jealous or has some ulterior motive. Why do you keep insisting on saying I am; I'm not.

This shows that you already have some biased feelings towards his work, so the question begs to be asked: how objective can you really be if you're "groaning" even before your hear the completed work. At least withhold final judgement until the work is complete and then make your verdict.

I think you're guilty of doing this as well, based on the quoted sections of your message and my responses.

and AGAIN with the thinking the post is all about you :cool:

try reading the entire thread.

I didn't quote you, so don't assume my post is directed at you in particular.

Zimmer's ok. Pirates 2 was fun. It's a shame he didn't make use of more of his own themes. There are only a couple instances where he stopped stealing Badelt's music, and they were mostly for ambience's sake. Gladiator was so so.

Personally, I have very low standards for liking music. It doesn't have to be great, it just has to sound nice and keep me interested for whatever amount of time. I don't care about orchestration, harmonization, whatever. While important, I don't judge a soundtrack on those points alone. I just sit back and enjoy it. That's what music's for, ain't it? ;)

Qccowboy: My deepest apologies then. However in my defense, you didn't quote anyone. You just said "SOME people" so it is understandable that I thought at least a percentage of your post was directed towards me. I'll ship you a care package. Do you like M&Ms or Kit Kat better? (And just in case this is misread, this is a joke meant to lighten the mood.)

And I agree with Nathan, QCCowboy, you need to chill man. It's not "overused" taiko drums... if you listen carefully, the percussion sound composition (physical terminology here, not music composition) that he uses is very intriguing. It's not all just Taiko Drums and Bass Drums which is a common misconception towards the Remote Control Production guys. And there seems to be this other misused term "Orchestration". Orchestration isn't a universal standard. So there really isn't "poor orchestration" or "great orchetration". It depends on what you do. You obviously don't agree with his orchestration which makes sense because you're not fond of music writing for films.

OK, let's clear up some things:

I AM fond of film music, I have a massive library of film scores.

I said I don't like WRITING FOR FILMS.

Learn to read.

I listed the things that grate on my nerves.

And it figures that two people have now responded to my post in perfect fanboy mode.

I said that those were the things that grate on MY nerves.

I ALSO don't care for the sound of electric guitar. Does that mean that you are right and I am wrong for not liking it?

Someone asked "what do you think of Zimmer?".

I responded that I don't care for it.

And then the fanboys jumped in with "how can you not like it!!! ARGH he's great!!!! You're just snobs for not liking his music!!! He's self-taught which means he's even BETTER!!!!"

I responded to ALL of that.

Why is it you feel you have to jump to Zimmer's defence simply because someone doesn't care for his style of music?

YOU don't think it's overuse of taikos, I do. We have a difference of opinion. But nothing you say is going to change the fact that I think it's an overuse. This is a matter of personal preference.

If a composer used tons of accordean in his music, well, I'm sorry, but nothing you could say would make me like his music.. I hate the sound of accordean.

I think the language issue is making things appear more tense than they actually are. I think the universal French/English/Greek translator is on the fritz. ;)

Anyway, I think the whole "I'm self taught" issue really boils down to (at least in my experience) the self-taught person using it as a reason to not improve. Again, just in my experience, when I've given feedback to that type of person, they tend to reject it and use the "self-taught" mantra as an excuse to either ignore my feedback, or present an excuse as to why the work is in that state to begin with.

Example -

Me: "Okay, you've got a bunch of parallel intervals and unresolved dissonances in this passages that weaken the piece. You should review this and possibly revoice your lines."

Mr. Self-Taught: "Well, I'm self-taught."

Me: "..."

Me: *unspoken* "So it's okay to ignore my feedback because you don't want to learn or grow as a composer?"

Personally, I don't care if one is self-taught or not... it's your willingness to learn and incorporate new ideas and concepts that distinguishes a good student. If you're unwilling to accept criticism or adapt to new concepts, I just won't waste my time with you. (impersonal you, of course)

If a composer used tons of accordean in his music, well, I'm sorry, but nothing you could say would make me like his music.. I hate the sound of accordean.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

gently caress Y** QCC!

How dare you??!?!?!?! You're such a prick! Honestly I hate the minute I saw you and met you! [/joke of course]

:toothygrin::toothygrin::toothygrin:

It just happens that some of use don't like his music, while others do. No point in arguing or analysing anything.

woah man, chill

I have read it... I said "not fond of music writing for films" maybe you should pay a little more attention. And I'm not a fanboy, you're just fantasizing that somehow.

Did I say anything about electric guitars? And I'm definitely not jumping to his defense. I'm saying I respect him. Nothing about how "you can't not like zimmer". Nothing on how why you should love him. You missed my point about the low drums (shouldn't have put emphasis on the word overused), it was that it's not all taiko drums. People hear his music and say it's taiko and how overrated they are. It just means that people don't listen to his music enough. Yes, he uses those drums way too much, but at least it's appropriate.

I agreed with Nathan when he mentioned that telling other people to screw off because they don't agree isn't exactly what you would call "just my opinion". Leave room for the rest of us.

In which case, if I want to state an opinion. I don't like John Williams. Not doing this to piss anyone off... I really don't like John William's stuff. Don't make this a God vs No God, Firefox vs IE, Mac vs PC situation. I used to listen to John Williams 24/7 until I realize that of the whole album, I only listen to one / two tracks. Kind of like the modern pop / rock albums. And he's old, so if he... well you know, game over soon, I'll be very sad... like with Goldsmith. So I'll stop liking his stuff ahead of time to be prepared. Nah, just kidding, that's not a reason.

OK, let's clear up some things:

I AM fond of film music, I have a massive library of film scores.

I said I don't like WRITING FOR FILMS.

Learn to read.

Qccowboy, I respect your feelings and hopefully you're not lumping me in with the "fanboys" because I've more than made my case in a logical and respectful manner.

However, I think you'll get better response if you toned down your messages. You come off as very aggressive in your posts- again I realize this is just text and I cannot get the vocal inflections. If I'm misreading you then disregard, but try and keep things friendly. No need to be rude.

I should probably stop posting on forum boards. I've come to realize that wherever I go, forum war seems to start with 200 million miscommunications. I'll just... go for a time out.

Stand in the corner! You in trouble! :) And write your name 5 billion times....BACKWARDS!

....semit noillib 5 eman ruoy

Now what?