Is a composition diploma a must?

Did anybody had success in composition without having a diploma?

I'm sure there are some, but I wouldn't recommend it

Yes plenty.

90% of pop stars for starters... Many jazz composers... Many film composers...

The classical world is a highly arrogant place.

On the other hand education is a must and ignorance is not a bliss when it comes to work...

I think that knowing the craft is a must, because you have to understand what you do and how to do it, which probably doesn't mean that diploma is a must, but in most cases this is the way you learn the craft in 20th and 21st centuries - in academic environment.

Sure, there are such composers. Film composers - Elfman, Zimmer, Preisner and others... Telemann, Elgar, Mussorgsky are examples for self-taught classical composers... These days, with so much information and wonderful books available, with dedication and motivation, you can probably learn and understand the theoretical part... BUT! when it comes to composition, to apply this knowledge for creating something entirely new, the teacher is priceless and I think there is no book that can replace him.

If by "success in composition" you mean to refer to producing music that at least some people enjoy, then no, you don't need one.

The stuff about pop vs. classical, famous self-taught composers etc. already posted in this thread pretty much hits the nail on the head...but like Nikolas said, musical education empowers you, as does any form of learning, and is therefore to be valued.

I can write music that people like, but I fully expect to be writing better music by the time I'm done with my degree. If that doesn't happen, then something went wrong (either my fault or the teacher's).

Thank you. I am ok with learning, I just don't have time to go to 4 year University to study music for now. I learn form many people virtual, real or on paper some teachers some composers. A have 4 music teachers which are also my friends: classic guitar teach, rock guitar teach and 2 friends who have a band and know a lot of music theory. I thought that to have an audience you had to be whit a diploma.

Thank you. I am ok with learning, I just don't have time to go to 4 year University to study music for now. I learn form many people virtual, real or on paper some teachers some composers. A have 4 music teachers which are also my friends: classic guitar teach, rock guitar teach and 2 friends who have a band and know a lot of music theory. I thought that to have an audience you had to be whit a diploma.

You should go to school to study English first

Jesus

Or maybe he should reveal to you where (s)he's from... Who knows... Maybe in some countries of the world English is not the first/primary language...

Christ...

Sorry I'm not English and I hate grammar and spelling. The forum has this nifty thingy that helps you to correct your errors and I don't see were I made a mistake.

"I learn form many people virtual, real or on paper some teachers some composers."-is it this part?

When you are thinking of a university diploma in composition, the piece of paper itself is not what will make or break your composing.

It's the studying that goes with it.

Study under the wrong teacher at the wrong school and your PHD will mean as much to you as a composer as a dentistry certificate would.

On the other hand, study with the right teacher for you, in the right environment, and a Master's degree will have brought you more good than anything else could.

Unless you expect to be teaching in a university in the future, a doctorate might be overkill. Unless you feel, after your master's, that you still need study.

Just be aware that composers rarely stop learning. Even years after we leave university, we're still learning and picking up things and improving.

Yeah, that part would probably be it.

Anyway, I'm at uni right now doing composition and I don't know how I would make it as a composer without my training. You see, university also gives you the added bonus of being completely immersed in music and musicians. You make friends and connections as well being forced to take classes in music history, ear training, counterpoint, and (if you're lucky) Eurhythmics which give you a lot of material to think about and work on. And from your teacher you learn about what's going on in the world of composition, how to work with publishers, how to develop a good work ethic and of course you have a seasoned veteran looking at your pieces and giving you help which is incredibly helpful.

So do you need to go to school? No. Does it help? You bet.

Hope this helped.

Yeah, as Qccowboy said, the diploma itself is worth next to nothing in composition, in contrast to many other fields (even in music performance it might be more important than in composition). You won't get any commissions for having a Master in composition. It all comes down to what you learn while studying, which can be a lot.

So no, a diploma isn't a must, but learning a lot is. Whether that's in an university or somewhere else that's ultimately not very important, but for many the university is the easiest path, as that allows you to exchange yourself with fellow composers, get feedback on your work and learn from what others do. Also it may offer many opportunities to hear your pieces performed that would be -very- hard to come by otherwise.

I haven't learnt anything from uni, however I did get a lot of "inspiration" to learn for myself, which I haven't found anywhere else.

This probably means that you have already had knowledge from books and/or private teachers?

Or it could mean he didn't find the right teacher and institution for his particular needs.

(and it would be nice if you attributed the quote in your signature... since it's actually a parody by George Bernard Shaw of the original by Aristotle. Rather bitter person, that Shaw, wasn't he)

Thankyou, I knew the quote... Just didn't know the source. Will do tomorrow tis 2:39 am.

This probably means that you have already had knowledge from books and/or private teachers?

I'm at university now but not studying music...I was too slow to self-teach myself to play the piano so that severly narrowed my choice of courses.

But I'm studying music on the side and of course practising lots. My hope is to take an Open University course in composition after my current course. I doubt it will be as good as learning under a tutour hands-on in class, but it will be much better than nothing.

I know that musical opportunities are opening up for me even now, so I know a degree isn't necessary. But I also know my music will improve and so wil my opportunities if I do get one, so it's defintely recommended if possible :)

Thank you! I got the idea: school it's good but the diploma is not necessary. I know some teachers from the music college in my City who will help get in touch whit somebody from the Conservatory from the Capitol(I a student here in engineering -hate it lots of math-). Beside this I already study a lot and exercise whit my computer. Thanks again.

I'm at university now but not studying music...I was too slow to self-teach myself to play the piano so that severly narrowed my choice of courses.

But I'm studying music on the side and of course practising lots. My hope is to take an Open University course in composition after my current course. I doubt it will be as good as learning under a tutour hands-on in class, but it will be much better than nothing.

I know that musical opportunities are opening up for me even now, so I know a degree isn't necessary. But I also know my music will improve and so wil my opportunities if I do get one, so it's defintely recommended if possible :)

I'm thinking of doing the same thing... do you mind if I ask what you are studying at university?

Game Design.

I wanted to be a game composer but as music courses were limited for me I decided to do something else I enjoyed to get into the industry at least.

Just to be straight.

It does have an impact when you go "I have the x degree in the x field". No matter what is education about etc.

Some jobs will take you only with a degree (for example teaching, in the music field), although it is quite irrelavent to the actual composing part. Don't expect to live off your compositions... All the composers I know also teach. And you can't really do that by going "I'm self taught"

Something to ponder about, huh? ;)