Who is, in your opinion, the world's worst reputable composer?

Abernathy, you may have some other moral or superficial criteria for ill repute, but I did not see any such specifications in the original question posted. You may want to reread it.

No, I know what's in the original question, although in fairness to you I suppose I could have been reading it differently. I read the question as, "Of all the reputable composers, which is the worst?" However, I think you're reading it as, "Which composer is the worst reputable?" The tone of the whole thread has been much more in line with my interpretation, which was my original point, although given your reading, I guess "Wagner because he hated Jews" is good enough justification. To be honest it seems sort of pointless to interpret the question that way but it's valid.

gona have to say Mahler. There seems to be no middle ground with him. You either LOVE him, or absolutely despise him

I think this thread has proved rather interesting - particularly interesting is that it hasn't degenerated into a flame war, which is probably what would happen if a similar question were asked anywhere else. It's nice to think everyone here's so civilised.

I think this thread has proved rather interesting - particularly interesting is that it hasn't degenerated into a flame war, which is probably what would happen if a similar question were asked anywhere else. It's nice to think everyone here's so civilised.

OH WOULD YOU SHUT THE HELL UP!! THAT'S THE LAMEST POST EVER!!!! YOU SUCK!!!

:whistling:

I can't understand why it's so popular to engage in "CAGE IS AN IDIOT" "NO HE'S NOT, MOZART IS." "LOL BEETHOVEN PEES ON EVERYONE!!!!!" "VERDI CAN BEAT THEM ALL IN A WRESTLING MATCH!" nonsense. I suppose it's like when children fight over whether Chuck Norris could really beat up Bruce Lee or whatever. Come on.

Focusing on superlatives leaves a lot of uncovered ground.

There is no best. There is no black, or white. Just grey. There is not one way to do something, there are many ways...

Focusing on the white or the black is a trait of the immature, the pedantic, or the desperate. Stop it! For your own sakes.

I know I'll meet a lot of crap for this, but I don't like Pierre Boulez.

I like electro-acoustic music. When well used, I'm all for serial music. However, there's something about Boulez that just doesn't do it for me. Which is strange, since he has to be one of my favorite conductors of all time. His analytical abilities amaze me, but his music just doesn't do anything for me. I don't think he's a bad composer, however.

With Mahler, I love his symphonic works. I'm not a big fan of his lieder, which is strange, since his vocal/incidental music was the basis of his early symphonies, but whatever.

I'm not big on Faure, either. His treatment of melody and orchestration sometimes leave a bit to be desired for me. He was certainly influential, but his personal style just leaves something to be desired for me.

Mahler's lieder are the most boring things I've ever heard, honestly. I mean, this is the same goddamn time as Zemlinsky and Wolf! Now those two are hardcore :>

If I remember correctly, people at the time thought Mahler's lieder were really really childish/antiquate so pretty much nobody gave a flip about'em. And it took a lot of time till Mahler's popularity convinced the general opinion that his lieder are anything more interesting. But seriously, compared with what was going on at the time, I agree that the stuff looks like the most uninteresting thing in the world, haha.

This is probably my one major dislike of the Young Composers forums. There are far too many questions that start: "What's the best..." "Who's the best..." etc.

Focusing on superlatives leaves a lot of uncovered ground.

There is no best. There is no black, or white. Just grey. There is not one way to do something, there are many ways...

Focusing on the white or the black is a trait of the immature, the pedantic, or the desperate. Stop it! For your own sakes.

That's why the title has 'opinion' in it.

i like this topic.

however, even under torture i won't mention the name of the one putting a helicopter in a corner and let it rotate for two hours.

Mahler's lieder are the most boring things I've ever heard, honestly. I mean, this is the same goddamn time as Zemlinsky and Wolf! Now those two are hardcore :>

If I remember correctly, people at the time thought Mahler's lieder were really really childish/antiquate so pretty much nobody gave a flip about'em. And it took a lot of time till Mahler's popularity convinced the general opinion that his lieder are anything more interesting. But seriously, compared with what was going on at the time, I agree that the stuff looks like the most uninteresting thing in the world, haha.

:( I love them. Kindertotenlieder, Lieder eines Fahrenden Gesellen, R

I know I'll meet a lot of crap for this, but I don't like Pierre Boulez.

I like electro-acoustic music. When well used, I'm all for serial music. However, there's something about Boulez that just doesn't do it for me. Which is strange, since he has to be one of my favorite conductors of all time. His analytical abilities amaze me, but his music just doesn't do anything for me. I don't think he's a bad composer, however.

I'm not a fan of Boulez either, aside from his Piano sonata and this piece he wrote for orchestra, soprano soloist and chorus that's quite good. You can find it on Youtube, I forget the name of it unfortunately. I doubt you'll meet crap for having a well put together opinion.

i dislike this thread.

I would have to say Prokofiev or Philip Glass. I think both showed a certain lack of depth.

Mozart is quite inconsistent for me. Sometimes he's alright, but other times he's just boring (more often than not, actually)...

I think all composers are inconsistent. Some pieces they write are really good, and some I don't like as much. WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THAT!?

I don't think there's any way to judge this topic evenly. There are too many variables to consider.

That said, I think the least musical pieces of their time were the earliest haydn sonatas for piano. They're great beginner's pieces though.

Yep this is a very subjective topic, but having different opinions is what makes life some interesting. Personally, I think that if everyone liked the same music, for the same reasons, everyone would write in almost exactly the same style. And that would be.... boring.

So.. the most incompetent composer for me is.. John Cage.

However, in my opinion he isn't a composer.

So... the award has to go to... (too much to choose from, I can't pick just one!)

Focusing on the white or the black is a trait of the immature, the pedantic, or the desperate. Stop it! For your own sakes.

Disagree entirely!

If you are a composer, you have to have a very strong opinion of what you think is good, and what you think is bad. Essentially, the ultimate goal of the composer, is to pick out the good notes from the bad ones, and make music. If you don't know what the 'bad notes' are, how can you know what the 'good notes' are?

If you dislike a piece, there's always a reason for it. It's very important to know the reasons why you don't personally enjoy something, so that you DON'T incorporate it into your own music. E.G If you listen to say, Rachmaninov and hate it (I love it!), you must discern why you don't like it, otherwise the only thing you have learned is that you don't like Rachmaninov.

Yes, music is subjective, but the composer must be arrogantly objective!

Sorry, if that didn't come across properly. I didn't mean we should be objective in that we go around telling everyone that their work is rubbish if we don't like it, that would be rude. When I said arrogantly objective, I mean that you have to believe in yourself, and the only way to do that is to like your music. (whether that's the music you see yourself eventually writing or the music you've written.)

I meant that you shouldn't be too open, in the sense that you always need to differentiate in your mind, between what you perceive as good and what you perceive as bad. Many great composers have had severe dislikes of particular music. Wagner disliked Mendellsohn and Brahms, and went in a different direction, eventually leading to the Tristan Chord which in some people's eyes kickstarted modern music, or at least set forth the foundations. If Wagner had been less of a stubborn git, chances are his music would have been completely different. Maybe it would have been better, maybe it would have been worse, but his 'arrogance' certainly helped him succeed in fulfilling his goals.

What I'm trying to say is, in order to recognise what is good (as a composer) you need to recognise what you think is bad. If you don't know what 'bad' is, then you can't possibly know how not to write 'bad' music.

I hate Mozart, but he was a good composer, if a bit bland.

Film composers- You guys have to remember that whether or not they are super original is not their fault. Can one blame Williams for 'Star Wars' sounding a lot like Mars? Not really, Lucas was ready to just use Mars, until Williams gave him something to satisfy him. Now, whether or not one can blame him for 'Star Wars' sounding like Stravinsky is something else.

My vote for worst reputable composer is a tough one. I really like Tchaikovsky, but he's not the best composer, as form and such go, from what I've seen. He's good at coming up with fun material, but it's not always displayed the best.

So.. the most incompetent composer for me is.. John Cage.

However, in my opinion he isn't a composer.

So... the award has to go to... (too much to choose from, I can't pick just one!)

Oh you're one of those kids~

Cage was an artist, musician, whatever. If you don't like it, fine, but I get the feeling you don't know half a dang thing about him in the first place like most people that say such things.

Either way, I bet you think you're more competent than him eh? If you can judge others, why not judge yourself also? What a bunch of nonsense, along with this thread as has been said a thousand times!

Oh you're one of those kids~

Cage was an artist, musician, whatever. If you don't like it, fine, but I get the feeling you don't know half a dang thing about him in the first place like most people that say such things.

Either way, I bet you think you're more competent than him eh? If you can judge others, why not judge yourself also? What a bunch of nonsense, along with this thread as has been said a thousand times!

SSC thank you very much.

You think I don't judge myself? I have spend my entire compositional lifetime judging my own music, which is why I don't think I've written anything that comes anywhere near to fulfilling my potential.

I have no problem with Cage's work, but it is the notion that he is a composer that is so ridiculous.

...the notion that he is a composer that is so ridiculous.

What the HELL is with all this?! The sudden hate-on for anything outside your limited scope of comprehension?!?! This isn't aimed at you Al, there's easily a dozen other members with as narrow minds as you. ;)

Seriously - before you decide to publicly declare a wildly influential and respected COMPOSER like John Cage, perhaps it would be prudent to investigate their work a little bit. Honestly - if any of you actually put in some effort to try and understand and HEAR what's going on then you'd realize how ridiculous YOU sound making these asinine statements.

How is THIS not composition? Even on youtube, you can hear the advanced rhythmic concepts and structural intricacies of his work. Just because you can't wrap your head around it doesn't instantly make it inferior.

John Cage - Bacchanale for prepared piano

Ok I'll accept him as a composer.

It's certainly not outside my scope of comprehension however, if it was I'd be a little bit worried.

It's just from some of the things he's done and said, I don't personally think he is capable of properly writing music. I know the piece you posted is a composition, I've heard it before, but I think there was very little 'ear' involved in the entire thing. For me personally, it isn't a very impressive piece of music, and indeed I'd argue that Britney Spears has figureheaded better music.

John Cage said he was more interested in the horn players emptying their spit buckets then he was in what they played. You could interpret that to mean he is a brilliant man, who see's things in a very clever way. However, I would argue that he simply could not appreciate what the horn players were actually playing, or had a very limited understanding of it. I personally enjoy watching a horn player emptying his spit bucket (or what ever its called) but it isn't the reason I pay to go and watch an orchestra play music. Personally, I think he was almost tone deaf based on that statement.

I could sit here and debate John Cage to the cows come home, but not because I just love annoying people. To be honest I just enjoy debating music, if of course anyone is seriously offended by any of the comments I made, then I'll gladly stop. If anybody however, starts to imply that John Cage is superior to Rimsky Korsakov for example, then they will have another thing coming!

Ok I'll accept him as a composer.

:) That's all I want - the willingness to be open and admit that something can be artistically valid in spite of ones preferences/likes/dislikes.

If only other people were so level-headed.

It's just from some of the things he's done and said, I don't personally think he is capable of properly writing music.

"Properly" is a purely psychological condition that you and you alone can impose on something. I don't care if you think it "proper" or not; I can accept that some people don't think it proper...what irks me is when people dismiss something as inferior or invalid simply because they don't like, don't understand, or outright fear it..

ANYWAY, I can see that you're not a mongoloid with a chip on his shoulder (unlike many pompous musical elitists around here), and I can understand your position. I hate getting dragged into this stuff, but I see so much pretentious posturing around here, I have to step in with a dose of reality every once in a while.

To the rest of you fools - take notes.

;)

Continue on your merry way.