Viola Question

I have read that orchestral string instruments are capable of playing chords.

I have a string passage where I require the violas to play an Eb and an F together, and then moving to an Eb and an F# together. Is this possible?

For some reason I dont quite like the idea of doing it (part of me thinks that the overall sound quality might be affected by this), but the cellos, violins I and violins II are all tied up playing other things.

Cheers for any help.

I dunno...I'd expect closer intervals are more difficult, but likely doable - probably with minimal effect on sound.

But, why not just go divisi with the violas? Split the section...?

If you mean the Eb on the C string, then it's impossible. If a higher Eb, then it's no problem.

As robin said, just use divisi.

(Edit: I'm assuming you mean the F a 2nd above the Eb, and not a 9th - you really need to be more specific)

Yeah, sorry, it's the F a 2nd above Eb, the ones just above middle C.

The reason I am apprehensive about dividing the violas is that they are already playing a resonance part on the Eb, and then the F comes in over the top, so it is like...

Eb--------------------Eb/F-----Eb/F#-------

... so I am worried that that will cause some of the volume to be lost from the original Eb.

What do you guys think?

Non-div. would work fine in that case.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean.

Are you saying that it IS possible for a viola to play those chords, and that it would sound better than dividing them?

I'm not saying either sounds 'better' - you have to decide for yourself. Non-divisi would work in that case, technically - whether or not the sound is to your liking is....well, up to you!

it also depends on HOW MANY violas we are talking.

I can assure you that a small viola section will sound BETTER if you divide that part between them for one very very simple reason: security.

If you make it a non-div. part there WILL be intonation difficulties. This is a chromatic passage. Expect intonation difficulties with a non-div. passage.

Since this is an internal part, it's also harder for the musicians to hear what they are playing and "fine tune". Added difficulty = added insecurity.

Playing double stops (two strings) also affects the sort of vibrato the player can put on the string - not immensely, but there IS a difference, particularly with orchestral players.

If it is meant for a large orchestra, then by all means, just divide it. There's no reason for it not to be, and it will be MUCH more secure in intonation.

There's no reason for it not to be, and it will be MUCH more secure in intonation.

Thanks, my only worry was that there will seem to be a step down in volume of the original Eb, is this not the case?

It also depends on the tempo - in a slow tempo, these particular double-stops are playable, but in a fast tempo they are fiendishly difficult as the player would have to sustain 4th finger on the G string while moving the 1st finger on the D string (stretching from 2nd finger on F# would just be painful).

As for the loss of volume, it is minimal in a divisi passage; the volume is proportional not to the number of players, but to the square root of the number of players. Because each player's ability to vary volume is far greater than the loss of volume caused by dropping half of the section, the section can easily compensate for any loss of volume when playing divisi. (This, incidentally, is also why a solo string instrument can be heard over an orchestra.)

Thanks, my only worry was that there will seem to be a step down in volume of the original Eb, is this not the case?

Tell the Eb's to play louder (mf), and the F's to play quieter (p)...

...

OR, divide the parts earlier....so there's no change in numbers between the Eb..... and the Eb/F.

To get an idea of whether a particular double stop works, you should try to imagine it on the instrument. Which adjacent strings could it be played on? What interval would you have to stop on each of the strings, and how "far away" are these two intervals? (If for a particular double stop you have to stop a minor second on one string and an octave on the other, it simply can't work for example.) There are many more things that matter: Can one of the two notes played on an open string? That would make gripping the double stop much easier, however it may lead to an "uneven" sound as an open string sounds differently than a stopped string (and has no vibrato). In which position are the notes to be played? (A high position has the advantage that the intervals are closer to each other, however it's more uncomfortable and intonation is harder.)

Then there are also certain more uncomfortable double stops, such as fifths (unless they're open strings of course), as you'd need to be at exactly the same position with two fingers on different strings.

And of course the instrument also matters: On a violin the intervals are close together, so a great variety of double stops are possible. On a double bass you probably can't even grip the range of a major third in the lower register.

And it has already been mentioned that you can't, of course, have two notes that are below the second lowest string, as both of them would have to be played on the lowest string at the same time.

Because each player's ability to vary volume is far greater than the loss of volume caused by dropping half of the section, the section can easily compensate for any loss of volume when playing divisi. (This, incidentally, is also why a solo string instrument can be heard over an orchestra.)

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear, divisi it is!

:thumbsup:

funny you ask though, we recently played Hoe down from rodeo, our orchestra isn't small...not too big though, the violins are required to play an A4 and A5 together, not hard at all and it sounded great for the musical genre..which brings me to my next point, it depends mainly on your music genre whether you would like to put a double stop, what's the genre?

I'm not sure of the genre, just like incidental/soundtrack kind of music is what I'm going for.

I uploaded the piece (or what I have so far at least) to myspace if you'd like to hear it...

Empty Taste

(The Eb/F comes in at the start of measure 7)

OR, divide the parts earlier....so there's no change in numbers between the Eb..... and the Eb/F.

This actually might be a better idea. The way the piece is shaping up I may well use a lot of these chords for the viola section, I'll have to see how it turns out. Also, the parts where there is only one viola note playing are supposed to be played gently anyway.

Hearing it doesn't help if we can't see the notes you're asking us about.

EDIT: to clarify, as nice as your piece may be, it's asking a lot to expect us to transcribe the darn thing to give you notation advice. ;-)

Try posting a snippet of the score where you need help, instead.