Horn vibrato

Although some professionals choose to do it, normally you would get weird looks if you vibrato a lot, but... why? Is there a historical basis for it? I have no problem with the sound of vibrato on the horn. Shed some light?

Just aesthetic perception really- you see, i dont like vibrato on the horn at all but i really like it in some instances on the clarinet

Actually, I've recently read that Dennis Brain used a hint of vibrato in the Mozart concertos... I've never heard the recordings, but apparently only hints here and there on the middle movements. Others say he used too much vibrato, and better examples can be found in Hermann Bauman.

In addition, Fitzpatrick in his wonder Study of The Horn and Horn Playing and the Austro-Bohemian Tradition (all 1680-1830) consider the vibrato a typical element to the common production of tone of the natural horn, and so appropriate vibrato on the Mozarts could not be concidered "out of style."

Finally, everything is a factor. Said here, "But the player will still base his/her playing on all the factors that are at work at that time - what kind of horn, the conductor, the style and skill of the orchestra, the characteristics of the hall, the style of the music and, yes, the decision to use, at the appropriate places, pure tones or vibrato."

Dennis didn't use much of any vibrato on those concerti, or the third one, at least, but I can't imagine why he would exclude that and vibrato the others up. If there's any it's so scarce as to be mostly ineffective. It's all smooth, round horn tone. :)

I wonder how one could determine when to use it. Guess I'm not experienced enough to know that yet?

Hmm...

Here's some reasonably wide vibrato in the opening solo.

When the Saints go....

Portuguese Horn Ensemble

I'd love if vibrato (for every instrument and voice, not just horn) was again used a bit more like in baroque: Not as a "standard tone", but an ornamentation. As such, I find it adequate for pretty much every instrument. (And honestly, I'd gladly allow for some more horn vibrato if all those singers and string players showed more restraint in exchange :P)

I absolutely LOVE it when you find a horn player who can emulate a vibrato as if a vocalist. There is a difference in different vibratos- one can have a "wide" feel, and the other can have a "tremulous" feel. This can be seen with some Broadway singers, but it's impossible to describe with words- you just have to know what I am talking about. ;)

Basically, I like SOME vibratos, and not others.

This tremolo vibrato, as you describe it... I hate it. I hear it mostly in singers and flautists, and I think it is the ugliest sound and can ruin a performance. Vibrato should be used with utmost care and moderation. The horn is no exception to this, it is entitled to as much vibrato as any other instrument, which I feel should not be very much anyways.

Highly appreciated uTube clip :D

I just wanted to know, how do you notate a vibrato? Just as 'tr'?

If you write tr they will play a trill and not vibrato. Just write "vibrato"/"poco vibrato"/"molto vibrato"/whatever above the notes (respectively "non vibrato" or "senza vibrato" if you specifically don't want one). (Of course, traditionally vibrato was almost never indicated in the notes.)

Sometimes, in newer music you'll find wavey lines that indicate visually how fast and how wide a vibrato should be.

@ Enigmus: lol, that's what we call brass band vibrato over here. Yuck!

If you write tr they will play a trill and not vibrato. Just write "vibrato"/"poco vibrato"/"molto vibrato"/whatever above the notes (respectively "non vibrato" or "senza vibrato" if you specifically don't want one). (Of course, traditionally vibrato was almost never indicated in the notes.)

Sometimes, in newer music you'll find wavey lines that indicate visually how fast and how wide a vibrato should be.

Ok, thank you :)

Another question, is it possible to create a vibrato in Finale or with GPO?

This tremolo vibrato, as you describe it... I hate it. I hear it mostly in singers and flautists...

You know, I still haven't found out why so many people here think singers constantly use too much vibrato. I am a singer and I find that it is easier to have vibrato then not to. Not going to say that you should ALWAYS have vibrato, but what I mean to say is that vibrato with a singer is (IMHO) more heavenly than any instrument. I have hardly ever heard anyone use "too much" vibrato- I find that, as I believe I heard someone here say, it should be used in the context of the style you're singing/playing in. I think that is my only real limitation to vibrato... until it gets out of hand. ;)

Also, I think tremolo vibrato has its uses- I admit to using it in musical theater to get a certain effect. Go ahead- call me what you want, but I think everything has a place.

[/rant]

I have hardly ever heard anyone use "too much" vibrato- I find that, as I believe I heard someone here say, it should be used in the context of the style you're singing/playing in.

Of course. Any remark about anything musical is true only in the context of the style at hand. I've heard plenty of singers with too much vibrato for my taste (in the context in which I heard them, obviously), but a pure, Kirkby-esque sound would be just as wrong in the contexts of late Romantic opera or early musical as it is right in other contexts.

In fact, ironically, the only kind of occasion I can recall I've heard people claim some sort of musical "absolute", which is true across different contexts, is when voice pedagogues talk about a "healthy" vibrato, timbre or whatever. Which, as you may guess, I think is BS.

Alan, I shall provide a few examples, one of the main ones being that I took hardly any care in trying to FIND examples, because they are just so plentiful, at least in how I view amount of vibrato.

The following I feel the vibrato is somewhat justified, but there is so much I can hardly tell what pitches she is singing, too wide, too often:

Denes Striny and Carolyn James, soprano

Same piece, different singer, same problem:

Anja Silja Final Scene Salome by Strauss 1/2

Some of that "tremolo" vibrato as I think of it. Too much. Sorry, but the soprano here hits some very high notes, and it might hurt your ears, so keep your finger on the volume for your speakers just in case. I had to take my headphones almost completely off... but I'm not concerned with the glass shattering highness, just the trembling vibrato, which I don't like much. The tenor has the same problem, I think, but as per the opera he is off-stage and hard to hear...

Angela Gheorghiu - Sempre Libera - La Traviata - Verdi

Here is my idea of just enough vibrato and not too much, the soprano has very very little, which I find perfect, and the alto is pushing it, a bit on the 'much' side, but still not at all to the point where it begins to sound bad:

Pergolesi's Quando Corpus- Sebastian Hennig and Rene Jacobs

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

The three negative examples I don't think are too horrible, but still, my opinion says the vibrato is too much. What do the rest of you think?

Enigmus- I guess our tastes just differ. ;)

I actually don't mind the vibrato of the sopranos in the first two examples... though perhaps the second one could make it tighter. The third one won't load.

The one you liked was relatively uninteresting to me. The soprano was too piercing- no real depth to her sound (IMHO, of course). The Alto was just right.

Edit- Not that I got the third video loaded, I can say that she has a great voice- not to think, very expressive, very subtle (it doesn't cover the note) but quick vibrato.

If I had known you guys were talking about Opera, I would've kept my mouth shut. :O I've hardly ever heard a musical theater singer with too much vibrato. I can agree that plenty of opera singers do too much, but I can also agree that it's the style of opera to be showy, and if you can do that, it's showy. What the worst thing is- try listening to the first woman singing Gershwin. I sat through a whole concert of that once, it was a nightmare! That's where I start saying that it's too much.

That Ren