Male vs Female Composers

So you'd think in the 21st century, "women power" would have meant a rise in the number of female composers. However, you only have to look around YC to see than the men still dominant in this area.

What is your opinion on this?

Why do you think women composers have a harder time than men?

Is this starting to change?

Your opinions please

(Not for any project, just something I am curious of and I think it makes interesting discussion)

(Also if you can state in the poll whether your male or female, that would be good)

Do women composers really have a harder time then men or is it that there just aren't as many woman composers out there as men. I'd be curious if that really is the case or it is due to the ratio of women composers and musicians being smaller the men.

Some of my favorite composers and musicians are women but its true that most of them are men. Maybe the idea of being a composer seems more reachable to men then women I don't know. I have never really thought about.

My teacher is a female composer. A pretty damn good one, too, and quite successful, as well (for a compose, I suppose :P). Though she does seem to be the exception to the norm :ermm:....

Is there something about females that makes them worse composers? I don't think so, not at all....but perhaps there is something that turns them away from it. I dunno....perhaps we should ask them (ones that do compose and don't, I suppose) :huh:.

Who'da thought that there is still sexism.

oh so suprising.

Well I am a very creative person - as a kid I use to write lovely short stories and once won a national composition (only

I think the main problem is cultural, mostly. If you think about it, up until recently, our culture (western and even, to some degree, eastern) had openly discouraged women in composition. Even though it's far more open to women than it has been in the past, the stigma of it is still around, I imagine. It also doesn't help that there aren't many female role-models as far as composing is concerned.

There already exists such a poll on this forum.

It also doesn't help that there aren't many female role-models as far as composing is concerned.

This is true - Grace Williams and Judith Weir are the only two I can think of.

Delia Derbyshire forever!!

Can't wait for Jessome to spot this thread and starting rambling about Carla Bley :P

It's definitely changing. Amongst my fellow students there are almost as many females as males. This may of course also have a bit to do with the fact that my composition professor is a woman too. But I also know of conservatories where there is a majority of female composition students with male professors.

As for the reason, I agree with Abadoss. It's still interesting though that it seems to take longer in composition to overcome the stigma, than in musical performance, fine arts, literature, etc. Personally, I'm pretty confident that in another generation or so the difference will have vanished completely, and we'll see as many female composers as male ones. We're getting there!

Oh, and there are definitely more than two or three role models! While in music before the 20th century mostly the ones near well-known male composers are known (such as Fanny Mendelssohn and Clara Schumann) there's a fair number of 20th century or contemporary ones that are very well known, such as Sofia Gubaidulina, Galina Ustvolskaya, Kaija Saariaho, Olga Neuwirth, Unsuk Chin, Rebecca Saunders, etc.

Gustav Mahler was a man, Felix Mendelssohn had a female relative who also composed music

I honestly don't see many women in musician/composer field. I'd say it's about 80/20 in favor of men. That's not say that women can't not be good composers or that they somehow inferior to men. Maybe back in the 19th century, there could have been a bias towards women but today, I don't think we can really say sexism is the reason. Women on this forum are treated with as much (if not slightly more) respect than men. I really can't think of a reason why composition isn't a more gender balanced field. To say that I'd like to see more women in the field of composition is a sexist statement, but I certainly am not against it.

Gustav Mahler was a man, Felix Mendelssohn had a female relative who also composed music

I mentioned Fanny Mendelssohn (his sister)! :)

I dont really understand why they're arnt as many female composers. It really perplexes me. Overall the classical music world you could say has been ruled by men for a while. Conductors, Concert Masters, Composers. I dont think that its harder for women, I just think theres not enough out there.

I dont really understand why they're arnt as many female composers. It really perplexes me. Overall the classical music world you could say has been ruled by men for a while. Conductors, Concert Masters, Composers. I dont think that its harder for women, I just think theres not enough out there.

Did this thread prompt the avatar change?

Maybe we should look at all art fields, what is the ratio overall?

Did this thread prompt the avatar change?

No I just felt it was time for a change.

There have always been a few female composers (like Bach's wife and Clara Schumann, among others), but I think if one looks at the contemporary music scene, they'll find that there's a lot of female names around. Jane Watkins, Tansy Davies, Judith Weir (as mentioned above), Elisabeth Maconchy, Nicola LeFanu, Emily Hall, Nadia Boulanger (here's a list with some female composers: Open Directory - Arts: Music: Women in Music: Composers ), and if you take a look at this cd, you'll see that more than about half of the composers are female :)

Even in my class, there's 3 female and 2 male composers (including me) (as a male, not female...), and in the other years (including postgrads) I think we have quite an equal number of female and male composers.

However, I've only seen one female conductor so far... I'd love to see more, though.. :)

history has shown females to be better songwriters than composers

Man? Woman? Who cares...if it sounds good.

BUT, in reality it doesn't quite work that way now, does it? Music is NO different from any other profession - women have had it tough for decades trying to establish themselves in any male-dominated field. The times, they are a-changing and we are seeing more successful females rise through the ranks.

I don't know how attitudes are in the classical world, but right now in jazz, the top tier of composers is pretty even. There are many female writers of the highest calibre.

history has shown females to be better songwriters than composers

Remember Vienna Phil only allowed women about 11 years ago.

Wiki:

Although the orchestra is widely acknowledged as one of the world's finest, in the 1990s it came in for some criticism by feminist groups because until 1997 it did not allow women to become full members of the orchestra (although some women performed with the orchestra, they were not full members). In 1997 the first woman, harpist Anna Lelkes, became a member after performing with the orchestra as a "non-member" for over twenty years. After Ms. Lelkes' retirement, another woman harpist Charlotte Balzereit eventually replaced her as the orchestra's only woman member.[4] Meanwhile the orchestra claims to have several female members.

In addition, no woman had conducted the orchestra before the Australian conductor Simone Young did in January 2005.

And jazz performers as well :)

And jazz performers as well :)

True, but I think a female jazz player has a much harder time than a female classical player.

So do you think that singing opera is easier than singing Mood Indigo? :P

So do you think that singing opera is easier than singing Mood Indigo? :P

Probably not...

But, the jazz scene does not see many female players - especially women who aren't singers. Why is that ?? They're numbers are growing, but women are still grossly under-represented in the upper echelon of jazz instrumentalists.

For every female bari-sax player, there's a thousand female violinists.