A Million Notation Questions!

Much like 8ves sometimes dottedish lines can show an accel, but they aren't the most common notation.

Much like 8ves sometimes dottedish lines can show an accel, but they aren't the most common notation.

Yeah, that was the first thing that came to mind.

ANYWAY...

Question 425.

I've noticed in Debussy music expressions like "poco a poco". Are these phrases kind of like tempo indications within a set tempo?

For example, if I have a piece at 100bpm but I want a specific part to be played more slowly and careful sounding, so to speak, I would use this phrase to indicate that?

(I am composing a piece which is ultra-expressive and I'm struggling with how to properly notate it.)

Thanks.

"poco

Here's one, if you don't mind, Chris.

How do I tell the performer to play one octave up or down from what's written? I believe 8va only applies upward?

Also, what about tuba dynamics, do they still go below the note though the note may be ridiculously low in ledger lines?

8va also applies downwards, but only if written in the bass clef (and sometimes -if not most of the time- is written as 8vb, for ottava bassa)

The violin part goes terribly high and with loads of ledger lines, do the dynamics still go below the staff?

Well, I guess it's at the discretion of the composer, really. If you think it makes it clearer to put the dynamics below (or above, in the case of the tube - in any case, far away from the notehead), then do so. For example, if it was a mere dynamic, it might be easier to write it right next to the note, but if you had loads of crescendos and loads of continuously high/low notes, it might be a better idea to write them somewhere as close as possible to the notehead, but not clashing with any ledger lines or any other lines, really).

And not only the tuba goes that low >_>

8va also applies downwards, but only if written in the bass clef (and sometimes -if not most of the time- is written as 8vb, for ottava bassa)

Oh, I didn't know that... Yes, it makes sense. Other players are better used to reading with ledger lines, since the different notes are played by different fingerings.

But I assume you would use it for the tuba, if you had a passage that stayed for a long time under 5-6 ledger lines, wouldn't you?

No, tubists are used to reading leger lines. (same things for flute/piccolo - they are used to reading leger lines)

I've seen an 8vb for tuba in Var

For the "when do accel./rit. markings end" question, you could just draw a clear indicator like such:

accelerando _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _|

Starts.... goes....... goes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ends. If you want to be uber clear, possibly at the end of this write un poco pi

Oh, and it's poco a poco, not poco

So flint, you expect us to read pedal Bb's and A's like mad all day? That's 6, possibly 7 lines down for THE lowest pedal tones... flutes at VERY most read 6... almost never more than 5 (highest C). Lowest I've been asked of is a low D (a Copland piece), that's five lines and our whole section had to sit there and argue over what notes it was for 5 minutes.

For tubas, a proper tuba part is not going to be sitting on pedal notes, so that shouldn't really be an issue, either. I would venture that a majority of the time a tuba part lower than E or D would be part of some tuba concerto, or failing that, written by someone unfamiliar with effective tuba writing. :thumbsup:

Ah, but you see, there are these wonderful things we like to call concert bands. They are the musical form of "no boundries." :laugh:

Sorry, I'm still unclear. Can 8va go up or down? How do I say which one I want (up or down)? And what does it stand for?

Also, why is 8vb only for keyboards?

As jujimufu said, technically you use "8vb" if you want it to go down, but you'll sometimes find an "8va" for downward octave transposition too. 8va stands for "ottava" (octave) and 8vb stands for "ottava bassa".

And from this discussion you can see that it's not entirely clear what it can or should be used for. Well it technically can be used for anything, but for most instruments it is generally avoided.

One reason why it may be more common on keyboard instruments may be this: Keyboard instruments are some of the few where the fingering doesn't change with a change in register, i.e. an A major scale is played exactly the same in every octave. Therefore octavation is merely a matter of placing your hands at the proper octave, otherwise it's exactly like playing an octave higher or lower. This makes octave transpositions very easy and uncomplicated. On other instruments however fingering and other things change with register, so playing something an octave lower isn't just "playing it an octave lower", but something quite different, so it helps if the notes are also -visually- different. Other instruments are used to read in certain registers, whereas players of keyboard instruments aren't used to so many ledger lines and have a much easier time transposing by an octave.

Well, if you want to indicate that something is to be played an octave lower, you'll put the 8vb (or 8va) sign beneath the staff, rather than above, and the ending of the dotted line following the ottava sign should end upwards (as opposed to downwards, when notating an octave higher).

On a sidenote, you may use the word "loco" to indicate that an octave disposition sign is not longer effective (at the end of the dotted line), but it's not necessary.

Ah, but you see, there are these wonderful things we like to call concert bands. They are the musical form of "no boundries." :laugh:

Yuck