Improv/Composed Art Music Notation

Hey all, I'm new (or really old, but since i was pretty immature then lets just start anew :) )

Anyway, I've been getting more and more into Free Improvisation music, especially the kind that isn't so much an extension of jazz, but is trying to be a legitimate art music (no intentional snub, just preference). I personally think improvised music is the most legitimate (wrong word, but i can't think of the academic term that I'm looking for) music, being that all music, in some fashion is improvised. Whether or not the notes are written before they are played, that process of writing takes a improvisational aspect through the trial and error - Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was The Fantastic Symphony.

However, I'm trying to give it a composed undercurrent so as to provide form and guidance, while hopefully not diluting the improvisatory action. My question is - how to notate it? I've looked at graphic and verbal scores, and a quote like "Each composer contributed with 1888 pieces" (IIMA - Carl Bergstrm-Nielsen fw compositions) seems to show that the composers can whip one up in a few minutes, while really paying no attention to the compositional aspect of what they're doing, following basic structures such as ABA, AB, or ABC. ABC seems to be a big favorite (Tacet, tacet, tacet?)

Another option is graphic scoring on the page, along with traditional scoring. But then you have to tell the improvisor what to do re: the chosen notation, with the composer now as conductor, which is something I have some problem with - it's kind of like crossing the streams.

The third example I saw was from the MBASE site, and that seems to be more or less lead sheet form, with free sections with chords overhead and marked off by hash marks.

I've been interested in Simon Fell, but have no access to his scores being in New Orleans - what we had was largely destroyed and no one (comparatively) is even academically interested in contemporary music unless it is Jazz, and that hasn't even moved forward since the 70s.

So I'm either looking for score examples of music I can hear (Simon Fell, Br

A quick reply, will go into detail eventually...

I personally think improvised music is the most legitimate music, being that all music, in some fashion is improvised.

...how to notate it? I've looked at graphic and verbal scores...

Graphic/verbal - do you mean written instructions? Or, verbal cues in real-time during performance? OR, text/graphic-based scores "do THIS for 7 minutes. Now do this" ??

Another option is graphic scoring on the page, along with traditional scoring....

Not uncommon for folks who try and notate freedom within a rigid system...sometimes effective, good for tricking 'legit' players into making funny noises. Very easy to dictate contour, density, kinesis, etc. while leaving specifics open to interpretation.

The third example I saw was from the MBASE site, and that seems to be more or less lead sheet form, with free sections with chords overhead and marked off by hash marks.

This sounds like it's just 'jazz'. Melodic/rhythmic/harmonic specifics are left to be determined by the soloist/accompanist? Steve Colemen and his M-BASE cohorts are THICK into the theoretical side of music, extracting creativity through a very detailed and strict regime. Extremely remote from what you're getting into, while at the same time, quite similar...

So I'm either looking for score examples of music I can hear (Simon Fell, Br

Graphic/verbal - do you mean written instructions? Or, verbal cues in real-time during performance? OR, text/graphic-based scores "do THIS for 7 minutes. Now do this" ??

I'm talking about stuff like the thing i linked to, Stockhausen's work in verbal scores.

I don't know of Simon Fell...but I expect Br

This might not be quite what your looking for, but I think it could be effective to do something kinda the opposite of the ideas giving structure to "fill-in". Maybe you could just start with a simple (traditionally) notated theme, and improvise the structure, accompaniment, variations, recapitulation, etc. as you go. It has the potential to sound connected and thought-out, while still leaving the performer (yourself) to "go with the flow."

[re: Br

The tendencies within improvised music are such that the smaller the group, the more reliance on 'in-the-moment', totally free improvisation. The more players, the more difficult it becomes to manipulate and control improvisation.

Yeah I totally agree; the piece I'm thinking of has 8 musicians - i think that's still limited enough, but you can get some complex music from 8 voices.

I think I'm just going to mark them as free sections, leaving no instructions; The instructions come from the rest of the music, the tenseness, the note choices, things like that. I'm just thinking from what my band does, how we react; I'm going to assume the same awareness in classical players.

Thanks for the links!