Zetetic Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Of Mozart's entire surviving output (considering individual movements) I count around 100 pieces which are in a minor key. Whilst this is still a huge figure, it includes movements, and accounts for less than 5% of the composer's output. This seems to me rather unusual. Only two of the forty-one symphonies are in minor keys, despite Haydn (and indeed Mozart!) clearly having illustrated the beauty with which minor tonality might be incorporated into sonata form. I am aware that passages in the minor key almost always appear in his lengthier works, but remain intrigued as to why such a high proportion of his compositions begin and end in the major. The first person to whom I mentioned this suggested that Mozart may have considered the major slightly more interesting in terms of its freedom to modulate, but when one notices that his compositions from youth are predominantly major, and those major works composed in minor keys appear centred around his later years, I find this theory harder to believe. It's possible he just didn't like minor keys, which seems a strange deduction. What accounts for this 95:5% figure? Note: I stress this is counting individual movements, which brings Mozart's number of works to 2669. Quote
nikolas Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Are you sure about your percentage? 5%? Fantasy for piano No.3 and No.4 are both in minor. Sonatas in piano, many are in minor. Symphonies have movements in minor, even if the whole thing is not in minor, etc... What I mean is that if the actual numbers were someting like 30-70 then there wouldn't be any problem, the guy was jolly happy in his output in music (plus very young and arrogant as well). If it is indeed 5-95 then it takes more research. Back to you Tom... Thank you Diane Quote
Daniel Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Yea, 100/630 (very roughly) does not make 5%. More like 16%. Add to that what Nikolas said (many of Mozart's E flat major works have a large, impressive C minor slow movement), and it looks a bit more normal. Add to that he probably just preferred major keys. Quote
Zetetic Posted April 21, 2008 Author Posted April 21, 2008 I'm counting absolutely everything, including movements. It's an even smaller figure if I only count individual pieces. It's 37 (add six if you count his arrangements of of Bach's fugues). Taking your figure of 630 compositions (which seems too small), we still only get 5.8%. There are two piano sonatas in a minor key. There are no piano concerti in a minor key. Quote
Daniel Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 There are no piano concerti in a minor key. C minor, and D minor piano concerti - if you have got this wrong, when this is such a big thing (D min PC is exceptionally famous), then have you got your other stuff right? Quote
Zetetic Posted April 21, 2008 Author Posted April 21, 2008 You're right, sorry - I'd counted them the first time around. I'm willing to be disproved, but to do so, I think you'd need to show that there are more than 40 or so minor compositions. Quote
Nirvana69 Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 Well, I'm not really sure if you're after some long technical explaination but common sense would tell you that...he just liked Major keys better? I don't mean to sound like an donkey; just don't see what other explaination there could be. Quote
Zetetic Posted April 21, 2008 Author Posted April 21, 2008 No. I think you're entirely right! I just can't think of any other any other composers who were quite so. . . stubborn. I suppose it fits with his character. Quote
Guest QcCowboy Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 let me get this straight: you're wondering why only 5% of his music "starts in a minor key"? just out of curiosity, have you checked how many of his peices have secondary themes in minor keys? or how many of his pieces modulate the main theme (in major) TO a minor key? It's actually a LOT more interesting to give yourself more lattitude for modulation this way. I think Mozart did just fine with his choices of keys. By the way, to include all his works in this calculation, you would have to ALSO include every number from every one of his operas, every section from every choral work, etc... Quote
Zetetic Posted April 21, 2008 Author Posted April 21, 2008 let me get this straight: you're wondering why only 5% of his music "starts in a minor key"? Yes, or rather, why approximately 5% professes a minor key. It's actually a LOT more interesting to give yourself more lattitude for modulation this way. I think Mozart did just fine with his choices of keys. So your point is that starting in a major key allows for greater modulatory freedom? This is the part of the question in which I'm interested. There's no debate to be had regarding the tonality selected for individual works - an astoundingly small proportion are actually *in* minor keys. By the way, to include all his works in this calculation, you would have to ALSO include every number from every one of his operas, every section from every choral work, etc... Don't take my word on the calculation. I was prompted to examine the variation of tonality having looked at the Kochel listings, surprised at how few times the word 'moll' appears. It's just something I found intriguing. Here it is, if you're interested: Köchel catalogue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote
Zetetic Posted April 21, 2008 Author Posted April 21, 2008 I've actually thought of a more convincing reason for the strange figure. It may have something to do with the fact that much of Mozart's music is 'entertainment' music, that is, music that was composed not to be heard in a concert hall, but to form an agreeable background to feasting or socialising. The Serenades for Orchestra were largely composed for this role, as were the Divertimenti. I suspect this was simply the music people wanted to hear. Then again, this hardly accounts for the music that was specifically written for concert performance. Quote
Guest QcCowboy Posted April 21, 2008 Posted April 21, 2008 my point being that there is no "key" designated for each aria of an opera. so only looking for the word "mol" will not give you a truly representative idea of what portion of Mozart's music actually IS in a minor key. In many cases, half the entire piece finds itself in a battle between major and minor, despite the initial key nomenclature. Sometimes, a movement is "in minor" but has a median section in the relative major. Sometimes a piece is notated as "in a major key" but has a minor slow movement. quite honestly, this is the LEAST of my worries when thinking about Mozart's music. Quote
SSC Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 I think the only reason I can't really hate Mozart is because of the Fantasia and Fugue for clock organ in F minor. Such a nice piece, though what the scraggy was he thinking. Clock organ. Any idea how much of a scallop that is to adapt to human-playable regular organ? And this is from someone who allegedly claimed the organ is the king of all goddamn instruments. If that's really what he said, I want to time-travel and force him to PROPERLY WRITE the damn thing at gun-point if necessary. What a jerk! Quote
Daniel Posted April 22, 2008 Posted April 22, 2008 The clock organ is not a standard organ, and wasn't meant to be played by a human - that's why there are triple trills and things. He wrote properly for proper organ - just not all that often. Quote
Zetetic Posted April 22, 2008 Author Posted April 22, 2008 I believe he wrote only two other works for solo organ: the Adagio and Allegro (also in F minor) and Andante in F. The other prominent organ works are his seventeen Church Sonatas (all of which are in a major key). Quote
SimenN Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 To me Mozart is one of the most dramatic composers, there is a lot of Major yes, but Mozarts exposition is allmost always in Minor. Mozart music is very special, there is a lot of smiles and tears at the same time. Listen 5 minuntes to Mozart and you have all the different state of mind, Its starts with a smile, then gets a little sad, then often angry or dramatic, then back to the smile again. And if its in minor its the same way, even in Mozarts Requiem there is room for some smiles. I feel Mozarts music reflects life in every way. There is not just black and white. but grey purple etc. Listen to a Chopin Nocturne, its just the depressive crying beautiful melody, but often not the contrast, or not in the degree of Mozarts contrast.(mabye its just the difference of style). There surface of Mozart might seem Smile and simple. But there is just as much Minor in Mozart as there is Major, the contrast is allways there. If you dive into Mozart you will find he's music very deep. Listen to K.310 second movement, there you have a realy deep Mozart, full of emotion. Quote
P.J. Meiser Posted April 23, 2008 Posted April 23, 2008 Most of the Mozart I actually like starts in a minor key... The Piano Fantasy k.397 is one of my favorite pieces to (attempt) to play. Quote
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