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Classical and Baroquian composers, this is not for discussion!


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Posted

Hmm... I'm 30.

No, I won't go about searching for your music, I wouldn't care as much as THAT to do it...

And actually I don't think I've ever defamed anyone, and nor seen too much. Be certain that most usually (98% let's say), I don't fancy personal attacks on any level (if you noticed I also told Juji to quit it in this very thread), and I am clear enough in the head to speak my mind when needed, no matter my personal taste in music (which spans pretty much everything).

Plus I've found that pretty much all comments help, on way or another. Of course the "wow! It's great" comment is not useful in any way, or helpful, in fact it's a tiny bit annoying some times, it does boost me for a few hours! :D Sort of saying of course!

So why not give it a try? Do it once. Failed, don't do it again. But over here we have some great open minded people (music wise), as well as arseholes (I'm including myself in both sections! :D) I consider it a great chance to get feedback, even if someone will piss on me on my works (which hasn't happened too much really.

Posted

You've got me wondering. (although sharing your music with everyone could also count as trying to change this defaming you speak of, and while I do understand, I'm not 100% sure it exists as much as you make it to be. Could be so though, I won't deny the possibility)

email: nikolasideris@yahoo.gr

Posted

nice john samuel, i understand why you sharing that way. If you posted here you would not get i lost of views (if its baroque or classical). can you add me to your list, i realy want to listen to your music! :), and this community with baroque? please tell me how to get in ?

Posted

John, Simen,

What you might want to consider that a community has equal members more or less. Even if you want the members to hate baroque/classical (especially Simen, since I don't know John), you can't really show that!

apart from that, what you are doing is using the community, selectively without offering anything in return. I'm here, I offer my music and scores, I offer opinion, feedback, help, tutorials in Finale, and anything I can help. In return I get feedback, help, advice, etc. You're asking for advice, help, etc, but are not really sharing anything else, not even your music, which could actually benefit others.

I find this selfish I'm sorry to say.

See this thread for example: http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/fantasy-piano-orchestra-14155.html Sure it's romantic, or neo romantic, but still got 3 pages, it's a fabulous work and nobody's pissing on nobody!

Simen, you need to get around your head this twisted sense that you are being wronged because you write baroque or something. Yes, you got attacked, but you also had something to do with this, you are not innocent! And as far as I'm personally concerned, I've not even looked at your music: You've given me no reason to. You're not nice, you're disrespectful, you act like a cheated wife some times! John, has given me no reason not to listen to his, so I'm still awaiting the links, although I find it wrong for the above mentioned reasons.

Guest QcCowboy
Posted
Thank you for the encouragement, but there is far too much defaming here on this site to be deserving of my musical contributions. I'm happy to share them privately.

I'm not quite sure why you are on this forum, if you have no intention of sharing any music?

I find that some people find it much easier to hide behind the veil of anonymity and non-participation.

Posted
You seriously bother me, kid. Too much hubris. By the way, are you aware that there is a difference between understanding functional dissonance and misunderstanding consonance?

Learn the rules before breaking them, and then only do it tastefully. Not many people think that throwing inanely random dissonances everywhere is surprising or clever anymore, just nerdy and common. That isn't to say it can't be done well, but definitely not without a natural (i.e. classical) taste to back it up.

Please stop disrespecting those who draw inspiration from the classical masters and styles simply because you don't find it necessary to properly examine or acquire the subtle devices used in those eras.

It is a lot easier to hide deficiency under a veil of dissonance.

Oh boy that made me laugh, thanks for that.

It's also very easy to hide deficiency under a veil of accepted formulas and aesthetics ;P I'd say much easier, too! Hiding behind formulas and other people's systems is sort of like a shield. Take it off, and the interesting stuff starts. Total freedom is the greatest challenge any composer can attempt, saying otherwise is not having experienced it.

I really absolutely hate the "learn the rules" comment, since it's so common as a way to excuse going through (and forcing) functional harmony and other such stuff even if there's no interest in it.

There are no rules, only taste~

Like Niko said though, that little attitude of yours only complements the fact you said utter garbage. Don't want to show your pieces because you're scared or what? Hah, come on, that's hardly the attitude of someone who recited the textbook "Know the rules" thing. You'd have nothing to be afraid of if you followed your own advice, eh?

Thx for the laff~

Posted

Thank you nikolas i have posted much music here, all i was saying, like QcC said yesterday i dont listen to the " mozart wannabes" if the threads name is Classical piano sonata many people will not even take a look, that is what i said :)

well i am realy nice actualy and if you think disrespectful, then you need to open your mind a lot more, this is the type of narrowmindness I see lot, You need to look some more at the stars!

Guest QcCowboy
Posted
Thank you nikolas i have posted much music here, all i was saying, like QcC said yesterday i dont listen to the " mozart wannabes" if the threads name is Classical piano sonata many people will not even take a look, that is what i said :)

well i am realy nice actualy and if you think disrespectful, then you need to open your mind a lot more, this is the type of narrowmindness I see lot, You need to look some more at the stars!

Actually, SimenN, I've found your participation on this forum contains a rather high proportion of disrespectful posts.

People have VERY patiently offered you insight into John Cage and what he was trying to achieve with 4'33". People have patiently taken time to indicate what subjects you should study, and where the "errors" in your music lie.

Yet you either ignore or rebuff all of it.

You yourself have been more than disrespectful, so it puts you in a difficult position to be demanding respect from others at this point.

Let me give you an example:

You: here's piece of mine

Someone:you need to work on your counterpoint/harmony

You: yeah, ok, whatever

You: John Cage is an idiot

Others: "/John cage explained"

You: you're all wrong

You: here's a newer piece of mine, hope you enjoy it

Others: you still have the same problem with counterpoint and harmony

You: ...

you: ...

You: people here don't respect baroquian composers, and this isn't up for discussion

Posted

Thank qcc, i do care what you say, and about my music i do care, and i have a lot of respect for you! belive it or not, i realy have, and all the things you have said to me i tryed to work on, as for my errors, like you, how can is fix it? you did not say that, you said i have error, if i have error is because i dont know how to fix it :) thanks

Posted

Composing supposed to be an urge to belch out your deepest emotional or intellectual content. Structure is only a tool to deliver. There IS such sing as overstudying music theory. Someone, who needs to compose in certain styles and apply rules (that were more or less invented by musicologist afterwards) to then be able to 'take it further' and 'break the rules' is a 'dead on arrival' composer. Why on earth would somebody want to compose baroque style music is a mistery. Nothing to study there anymore. There isn't a single segment of this world that baroque could represent in any way. It's just simply not true anymore. In this case, it's nothing more than a lie. For a composer it's just a shield, a protection from being self expressive or personal. Cliche beyond everything. No drawing only colouring.

It works the other way round as well. Someone who only can think in total atonality or dissonance is nothing more than a charlatan. Both philosophies are outdated and in fact dead-ends. We must invent the music of our own age and stop miming the past. It's ridiculous...

Posted

You can't compose in a style older than modern music? That makes no goddamn sense. Stravinsky decided, after the Rite of Spring (a very early pinnacle) no less, that he wanted to write neo-Classical music, and many other great composers have looked to the past for inspiration to write music that is great, if not en vogue (Beethoven comes to mind as well).

Any other arguments?

Posted
Composing supposed to be an urge to belch out your deepest emotional or intellectual content. Structure is only a tool to deliver. There IS such sing as overstudying music theory. Someone, who needs to compose in certain styles and apply rules (that were more or less invented by musicologist afterwards) to then be able to 'take it further' and 'break the rules' is a 'dead on arrival' composer. Why on earth would somebody want to compose baroque style music is a mistery. Nothing to study there anymore. There isn't a single segment of this world that baroque could represent in any way. It's just simply not true anymore. In this case, it's nothing more than a lie. For a composer it's just a shield, a protection from being self expressive or personal. Cliche beyond everything. No drawing only colouring.

It works the other way round as well. Someone who only can think in total atonality or dissonance is nothing more than a charlatan. Both philosophies are outdated and in fact dead-ends. We must invent the music of our own age and stop miming the past. It's ridiculous...

So harsh. I've said it before and I'll say it again, any system, composition technique and otherwise musical tool are ways and methods of expression and bend to the will and ultimately the goal of the composer. If a composer wants to write in baroque style because they just feel like it, there's nothing wrong with that. Same for any other style or aesthetic.

And, it's a mistake to say baroque music doesn't represent anyone. It represents whoever identifies with that style and aesthetic, like any other aesthetic and technique, these things don't die. They just become more or less popular.

As far as "music for own age?" You I hope you've got some mighty revolutionary ideas because last I checked "our own age" is postmodernist galore. Which means the return of EVERYTHING historical, new, old, doesn't matter and put it all in a blender. The avant garde isn't what it used to be in the 50s, 60s or 80s, if it even exists anymore.

So? What do you suggest besides criticizing composers' decisions for no reason? Moreover, who said composition is "supposed to be an urge to belch out your deepest emotional or intellectual content?" You? Deh, you're not everyone, and everyone's not you.

Guest QcCowboy
Posted

OK children, I think it's thread closing time.

The original intent of this thread does appear to have petered out and now it is promising to take a turn towards flame territory.

Please, guys and gals, TRY! try to get along.

No, you won't all have the same tastes, and a lot of you will have different ideas about what is or isn't "good new music".

But we can all agree on one thing: no matter how much you argue about it back and forth, very few minds will actually be changed by that sort of exchange.

And remember the old adage: Arguing on an internet forum is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Final word.

Now go write some music.

Guest
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