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Posted

Please Explain...text books never give me an easy to understand answer. I know that sonata form is not 'easy' but if someone could explain it to me...that would rock.

...

I will dedicate a sonata to the person with the best answer :P haha...ok maybe not...probably doesnt really entice anyone :P

Posted

I would be of more help if I could translate all the goddamn german terminology.

But since I can't, I'll try to say a thing or two about it. A sonata form can be thought of a larger A-B-A form (for 1 movement, that is.) There is the beginning with a theme which later is "developed" through sequences and working of small motives taken from the theme.

Then comes a second theme, usually in a different tonality, which also gets development. Generally, the piece is going to modulate to the dominant (if it's in major) or the minor dominant* or the relative major (if it's in minor.) The idea is that you get a contrast in between the major segments of the movement.

Later, you need a reprise from the first theme and a backwards modulation process to get there. At the end, you can (like with any of this) tack on a coda.

So, if you order it overall as A-B-A, it's very possible that within each segment there's a song-form styled development (ABA-ABA-ABA), depends on the case, and I don't have any literature on hand to show any examples.

But, it also depends what sonata form are you seeing. The Mozart-Vienna Classic style sonata form is pretty different from what Beethoven later does. In Mozart, there isn't such a well knit relationship between motives and tonality. Indeed, each measure in a Mozart sonata can have new motives or rhythms, where in Beethoven there is a much bigger emphasis on developing a small amount of material. The Vienna-classic conception of form comes more from tonality than from actual motive-thematic work (which later characterizes Beethoven.)

Sonata cycles for orchestras, such as Beethoven's Symphonies and such are basically the same idea (when the sonata form is used) but they are expanded to account for the usage of instrument groups. So, Beethoven repeats stuff in the symphonies where he'd never repeat it on piano, or string quartet. Basically it's an orchestra-color thing.

If you're talking about sonata cycles, there are other things too, like trios, rondos, adagio form, scherzos, minuets, etc. Which have nothing to do with the sonata form per-say.

Sorry I can't be of any more help. :x

* Minor dominant as a tonal region, because it's pretty much nonexistent as a harmonic function until Schoenberg and the like.

Guest QcCowboy
Posted

It really depends also on what exactly you want defined.

Do you want the "classical" sonata defined?

Or a general definition for the sonata form?

A "Classical" sonata-allegro form would have:

Exposition:

Theme A (main key)

Theme B (dominant key, or relative major if the main key is minor, or even relative minor if the main key is major) in contrasting rhythm or mood from theme A

Development:

Either of the main themes, or only one or both, here developed, varied, played with. Movement generally away to more distant keys from the initial key of the work.

Generally ending in the dominant so that it may lead directly into:

Re-exposition:

Theme A in the main key

Theme B in the main key

(optional)

Coda - a brief section based on either a passing element from the development or something completely new, which leads into the final cadence.

There are SO many variations on this principle that this is only vaguely the description of the form:

some sonatas only develop Theme A or only theme B

some have a reverse re-exposition (theme B then theme A)

some have three (or more) themes

some have VERY lengthy expositions with repetitions of entire motivic sections and a very brief development

in some sonatas, the themes A and B are directly related in musical contour or motivic origin.

Posted

Yeah, I think we'd need to actually talk about concrete literature examples, as it's usually done with this, which is why I mentioned I really couldn't go over the entire thing without examples.

Guest QcCowboy
Posted
Yeah, I think we'd need to actually talk about concrete literature examples, as it's usually done with this, which is why I mentioned I really couldn't go over the entire thing without examples.

very true.

the little book I use as a general reference for form has 13 pages of VERY tiny text just for sonata-allegro form, while most of the other entries in the book (it covers all the main forms in music from the renaissance to the romantic period) have at MOST one page, and generally only a large paragraph.

Posted

A sonata, in sonata theory as defined by Darcy and Hepkoski (sp) can have 4 or 5 different types. The most common type that we refer to is is a type III sonata. As compared to a Sonata Rondo, or Concerto featuring sonata form.

a Type III Sonata develops as such:

Theme I, usually refered to as PI -- Primary Zone I, which has the main theme in tonic, always in tonic.

the Transition Zone, labeled TR -- a boost in the energy of the certain section that pushes toward theme two. You might usually see dominant lock in this section, but not always.

Medial Ceasura. This is a very tough one to define because there are several different types. Ideally the Medial Ceasura would be a V/V in the new key (V or in minor III), but their are a lot of deformations on this. When I say deformation, I really mean a deviation from the norm. If you read Darcy and Hepokoski's book on Sonata Theory, you'll get a broader look at it. The Medial Ceasura is a very important part in the piece, because it might and might not be there.

Theme II, reffered to a S, Secondary Theme - follows the TR zone and is usually a nicer, softer, and more elegant theme with a clear melody. (Beethoven's 5th is a great example of this.) It's often a little shorter, but not necessarely.

Essential Exposition Closure, reffered to as EEC. Is the first, get this, it's important! The first SATISFACTORY PAC (V to I cadence) in the Second Theme.

Closing zone - referred to as C, is everything after the EEC.

Developmental section -- Tonal flux on the idea or motive of one of the two theme's in the exposition (usually the P).

Recapitulation - a restatement of the developmental section, will include ALL that was mentioned above.

Coda -- Usually a variance of theme 1, but not necessarily.

I could explain more, but I've only taken one semester of Sonata Theory. So I only know Type III and IV sonata's well.

- Morgri

Posted

Awesome help guys. Don't have time to read it all right now (its 10:09 PM), but I certainly will indulge myself in the tremendous information you have given.

If anyone else has more info/variants...I would love to hear. The more opinions ofSonata form I get from other people...the better I will understand...and anyone else who needs to know.

Posted

Hugo Riemann's stuff on forms is very complete, though it's in German, there may be a translation of his stuff floating around. I find his take on it rather accurate, including the whole classification of a theme.

I'll sort of explain the whole theme thing, as far as I can remember:

There are two fundamental types of sonata themes, "Satz" and "Periode", (sentence and.. period?) and they differ in things like length and construction.

A "periode" is basically a symmetrical build, harmonically or motivically(lol) or both. That is, the proportions are symmetrical, you can have a 4+4 measure theme, with the first portion being T, D, T, D and the second is the same but with perhaps the same motive on a different scale step, such as at the 5th. Also, things like pedals on notes such as the D or T roots, generally point towards a periode construction (but more on that in a second.)

Example: 2nd sonata (op 2 Nr.2) from Beethoven in A major. It's an 8 (4+4) measure periode. The characteristic is the symmetry, divided into 2 groups. In this example the theme is very simple harmonically, consisting mostly of a pendulum between D and T, also a very telltale sign of a periode.

Then there's the other type of theme construction called "Satz" in German. This construction type is characteristic for having development characteristics within the theme duration, and builds such as 4+4+2. It's considered "development" in this sense anything that invokes things like sequences and motive/thematic variations and workings. Another characteristic is the progression in harmony, which unlike a periode can be more varied or simply modulate during the theme and out of the beginning tonality.

Example: 11th Sonata (Op 22) from Beethoven. The theme here is a Satz (3+4+4), in which the first and last sections have development elements (measure 3, measure 8 and 9.) There's also a lack of symmetry, either harmonic or motivic.

So, as you can see, writing a theme is a really fundamental part of the sonata form. Moreover, the second theme is also as important, and has the same considerations and forms. There are also a bunch of hard to classify themes and exceptions to the analysis above, but it should give you a pretty good idea of what to look for.

About the term "Development", I'm using it to denote a composition technique in a section like the one which comes in between the second theme and the first theme, for example in the first Sonata from Beethoven (Op 2 Nr.1), from measure 9 onwards. He takes the 16th note motive from the second measure and uses it to build a sequence in measures 10 until 15. This is a very typical example of development in the Beethoven-analysis sense. Not to be confused with what is done in the Baroque period with sequences, which in German gets a name of it's own and is considered something else due to the form in which it applies.

I feel that to really get the gist of the whole thing, you'd have to get yourself a good'ol Beethoven sonata book and analyze a couple of the sonatas completely. The first is always a favorite, since it's relatively straight forward, so start with that.

If you have any more questions, you should ask them here too, since I'm feeling particularly generous and I'll help. Specially if anyone cares to help with the terminology so I don't have to use the one in German. :x

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