Grouping Rests

Ok, so this may seem like a really simple question to most people, but here goes!

Example:

I am in 3/4, and i have a quaver note at the beginning of the bar. This is all i want in the bar. So, do i group my rests:

quaver rest, then two crotchet rests

OR

quaver rest then a minim rest

OR

a dotted crotchet rest?

I was always under the impression that you do rests by beats, so that the first option would be correct. However, someone told me the third option is right, making the rest as large as possible. I thought this would make the music harder to count, especially as i am writing for school kids.

Also, say i am in 6/8 and i want a note to last the entire bar. Do I:

use a dotted minim

OR

a dotted crotchet tied to another dotted crotchet?

I usually go for the first option, but then i was told not to group notes across the beat.

Can anyone help me out here?

Thanks!

Ouch, it hurts my head to use those names...

In 3/4, with an 8th note on the first beat only, you would use an 8th rest, then 2 quarter rests.

In 6/8, a note that lasts the entire bar would be notated as a dotted half note.

Thanks! See this is what i thought, but my university lecturer told me that this is wrong, and it should be done like i said above. I thought she'd know her stuff, but it does seem to go against what i learnt!

I agree on these. "Not grouping across beats" generally only refers to cases where the grouping doesn't end on a whole beat: I.e. Grouping several beats together is perfectly fine, but grouping notes that last for example two and a half beat can be problematic. This also isn't strictly true of course. Writing a dotted quarter note followed by an eighth note in 4/4 time certainly isn't a problem, in most cases. An exception would be very rhythmically complex music where it might be helpful to really separate every quarter beat.

Generally it's more customary to separate pauses than notes anyways. Often dotted rests aren't used at all. Personally I would only use a dotted rest if it either fills out a whole beat or bar (such as a dotted quarter note in a 6/8 or a dotted half note in a 3/4), or if it is -directly- followed by a note that complements it, like a dotted half note pause followed by a quarter note in a 4/4, or a dotted eighth note followed by a 16th note to complement a full quarter etc.).

There isn't an universal rule for all of this though. The important part is to find a notation that makes sense, is consistent, and easily readable. What exactly that is depends on the context.

Yeah, I think the only time I use dotted rests are in 6/8, 9/8, etc., where I'll use dotted quarter rests (since that's the main subdivision). Or in 6/4, I might use a dotted half rest if the beat is two groups of three quarters.

I'm actually pretty liberal with my use of dotted rests, but I pretty much only use them at the beginning of bars. I find that it doesn't really obscure the music. If somebody was not able to read my music because a bar of 4/4 had a dotted quarter rest, then an eighth note, then a half rest, I wouldn't want them playing my music. That's simple scraggy.

In the world of music engraving, dotted rests are one of the most hotly debated topics.

From my understanding of it, they should be generally avoided.

The only place, as has been mentionned here, where they are "common" (and from my understanding of the way engraving minds work, the only way they are in any way or form acceptable) is in compound time signatures.

So I would suggest:

2/4, 3/4, 4/4 etc... never use dotted rests.

6/8, 9/8, 12/8 etc... you are free to use them or not.

Once I am finished moving into the new house (give me another week or so), I'll update the orchestration masterclass with a section on notation - rests. Hopefully, I'll have freed my music library from its cardboard prison by then and will be able to reference my books on engraving to give you specific answers.

Thanks all, this has been helpful, as i have finally finished my composition portfolio!