Would you Consider My Contributions to This Site as Credible?

Hey Everyone

My name is Jared, some of you know me as "Johnwilliamsfan." I'm posting simply to ask if you think my music is a credible listening experience. Would you consider me a good musician? Do you think I stand a chance at fulfilling my dream of film scoring? I'm not seeking critique, compliments or advice... Just honesty.

Thank you all.

Jared

PS

I'm 17 years old. (View my threads started to hear my music)

I have no idea who you are, and why are you seeking acceptance from internet people who probably don't know you either.

Just an idea:

I'm 30 and I'm still not working in the side of John Williams, nor scoring the amazing $100,000,000 films!

Take it slow, study, work hard, keep at it and you'll see for yourself. :)

PS. In all, your music sounds lovely for a 17 year old! Nothing to worry about I say! ;) (listened to infiltration)

All I would add to what Nikolas has said is, don't think of "film scoring" as a distinct category of music which you can start from zero. You first need to learn the exact same things as a composer who has no intention of doing any fim work.

The switch to film scoring happens once you have completed your basic theoretical materials (a bachelor's, a master's, etc...).

Think of it a bit like a doctor: anyone wanting to become a doctor basically does the same core degree in medecine, then specializes once that is finished.

I know a lot of schools are offering a bachelor's in filmscoring, but from my experience, I think that is an erroneous approach. The additional materials required for filmscoring, what makes film and game scoring "different" from music for the concert stage, should be learned ON TOP OF the other matierals that all composers need, not instead of.

And if you truly are a fan of John Williams, then you should probably follow in his footsteps: a good formal education.

And if you truly are a fan of John Williams, then you should probably follow in his footsteps: a good formal education.

*cough*Juilliard*cough*

It's like people who study with super-famous people like Messiaen, they have a really good chance to get places just because of name dropping. What a load of crap.

SSC are you implying that John Williams is not a worthy composer and only is where he is because of Julliard?

SSC are you implying that John Williams is not a worthy composer and only is where he is because of Julliard?

I'd say it's a huge factor. There's a lot of luck involved, too. Besides, you know how it is with "studying" if you're interested in a career. You're much better off having on paper that you studied with X or Y famous composers even if they don't really give classes at all. When that isn't available, shoot for some degree that impresses people anyways.

I don't like any of that. It's just as well trying to get an "edge" on the "competition". That's why I'm sayin'. Williams is where he is entirely because he got lucky, had good connections and studied at a super-duper prestigious place. It also helps that he wrote stuff which was commercially viable, etc. But honestly, do I really have to explain this?

John Williams is "where he is" because he's good at what he does.

He started out VERY versatile, with music that bridged classical and jazz, incorporating lots of "modern" effects and having a really good sense of what works and what doesn't in film. Star Wars wasn't his first film. Far from it. He'd been scoring for film and TV for nearly 20 years before that. He built up his connections and he was good at what he did. Or else he wouldn't have gotten where he did.

As for the name of the institution having a greater say than the actual work of the musician, well, it apparently does not always work. There are a tonne of Juilliard graduates who are complete unknowns.

SSC: You are reducing one of the best film composers out there, even if I don't believe in best, etc... That's why I asked.

There's no doubt luck and the institution play a part, but I wouldn't put such weight on such things, personally. As QCC says, there are zillions of people who graduated Royal Academy (the most famous of the UK), CSMD de paris, or Ircam, Wienna, Julliar, Bercley and virtually "noone" is known really. Of course it makes sense that it might help, but not just because "OMG He is from Julliars", but more like Julliards will offer tons of opportunities due to fame, maybe an orchestra to get your works played, maybe some chances for recitals, etc, which is more than some conservatories offer!

It's pretty much what I said. Though, I don't really have anything against Williams, it could as well be anyone. I don't think he's either good or bad at what he does, subjective, blah blah blah. But either way, it's "playing your cards right". Williams as a composer isn't so relevant to this as Williams as a business man. Either way, even if there are a ton of unknown people that graduate from prestigious universities, I've run into a lot of these people that land jobs as teachers and whatever even if they're incompetent just because of the credentials.

So, really...

Exceptions happen, but the probability of having more commercial/career chances because of "where" and "who" did you study is still big.

I know a lot of schools are offering a bachelor's in filmscoring, but from my experience, I think that is an erroneous approach. The additional materials required for filmscoring, what makes film and game scoring "different" from music for the concert stage, should be learned ON TOP OF the other matierals that all composers need, not instead of.

I really agree that an early and strict specialisation isn't all that helpful in composition and that a composer should seek to be well-versed in general musical and compositorial concepts, even if they don't strictly belong to the area you're most interested in. Not even to mention that your priorities and interests might change once you are exposed to things you aren't already used to.

I don't see why specialisation and the "basics" need to be so strictly separated though. You can learn film music techniques on top of more general musical education even -during- the time you learn this more general stuff. This allows you to explore the area you're most interested in, while still learning the things other composers learn and keeping the possibility to change your path if you should want to. After your degree it might become much harder (and more expensive) to learn from people who are experienced at scoring movies and exchanging yourself with other people who share your interests, so it's certainly not harmful to start learning while you're still studying.

If a school offers degrees in film scoring that don't contain any basic musical education in other areas I agree that this is problematic. Many however (including my own) have a very similar curriculum for all composition students (which also is quite similar for the music theory students) and contain a few specialised courses. Film music students need to do the same classes in analysis/harmony/counterpoint/ear-training/music history/solf

Rihm is a great example, yea. I know a couple of people in that exact situation.

Well, for one thing, John Williams managed to somehow get in Juilliard, and he couldn't present any titles or schools or teachers before that to get accepted there. I'm sure diplomas and titles help help, but I am afraid you don't just get them for free. You're usually worth it. A school/conservatory/university has no interest in giving a diploma to someone who is not worth it - that'll just make the university's reputation worse. What's more, the more famous/good the institution, the better you have to be to get in, for the same reason. So, apparently John Williams was very good at these things.

What's more, John Williams is not the only person to have graduated from Juilliard. As far as I know, at least. Yes, it is easier to make connections and meet people when you're in a place like Juilliard, but then again, what happened to all these people who graduated from conservatories like Juilliard from all over the world? Why are they not like John Williams? Why are there only a few composers who have achieved in terms of fame what John Williams has? Is it really just connections?

Think of Gustavo Santaolalla; he had practically no formal training in film scoring (or another form of composition, really), yet he met people through what he did because other people liked what he did (i.e. playing in a band). In fact, Santaolalla has a much higher rate of oscars won per movies he scored than John Williams. So, if Santaolalla can be where he is without any of the background or titles of John Williams, why can't John Williams be where he is without those as well?

And you can't deny that John Williams is not a good orchestrator or that his themes are not catchy and effective in the kind of movies he works for. So he is good at what he does, that's not something to deny.

And as a reply to the initial thread, I have nothing to add but to read the replies made by Qccowboy and nikolas, which should be quite helpful (and they know much more than I do or many other people in the forum).

Oh I worked with John Williams! And I'm like really young! He helped me with a film score that was lacking some of the richnesses that he provides occasionally. The truth is John Williams has catchy genius melodies, and you have to be on the track to making a wonderful melody to really be taught let alone acknowledged by Williams. He looks for special cases really, but you don't have to be a successful melodist. You have better chances being young though. From what I know he likes to teach children. If you have the right hook ups you can meet him. Get to know some top dogs and work on something you know has potential. He used to be quite potent in his humor, but nowadays he is more subtle and even serious. His a pretty original character compared to a lot of other old composers in his realm. But he's really the one who made it happen. And all the others in his realm nowadays are being copycats.

His best work is the original Star Wars, and second best is Jurassic Park. Though I do love all the Star Wars works along with the E.T. The Extraterrestrial suite.

If you have to ask questions about your music, you obviously don't know it that well. Getting what you want from a successful musical career comes from being intuitive in your judgements, which is actually hard for the more perceptive. Asking too many questions really doesn't get you far in a musical career, because it's proof that you don't have what it takes to begin with. You have to judge yourself without the consent of the people and tell the people what they want. If you compose something worth it, people will automatically "want it," and you'll prove to be above everyone by giving them what they want. This idea is something that Williams believes in and he shared something like this with me, but I don't really remember all the details. I have bad memory. But he did tell me I had these qualities in my music (something about acception in the film world.) I personally believe it's kind of silly, but I don't really care. Working with him was one of the greatest experiences of my life. I'm pretty sure there is a great feeling that goes along with whatever fields of imagination my brain can offer, because I get that vibe frequently from Williams. He's an great teacher and a great friend.

Try talking to old composers around your town. They probably know a lot.

RKMajora: You've mentioned "the" John Williams before and that you're having/were having lessons with him.

As you can understand, it is hard to believe, so is there any way to back up your arguments? Given an analysis that you gave of the ET theme which was a bit off, imho, I find it hard to believe, but not impossible!

Second issue is YOUR music, which I privately asked you about and you never sent it over, although you promised to do and it's been more than a month now.

Now, I have no trouble believing and I have faith in human nature, but you do realise that you come off somewhat thin with what you say, don't you? (and btw, I would, personally again, cherrish Williams's every single word and not forget about it becasue I have bad memory "lol"!)

Just to clarify... This post wasn't to help me like my own music better. (Not to sound arrogant, but I love my music.) It was to evaluate wether my fellow peers thought my music was of any worth.

Just to clarify... This post wasn't to help me like my own music better. (Not to sound arrogant, but I love my music.) It was to evaluate wether my fellow peers thought my music was of any worth.

Well, for me the point isn't whether your peers think well of your music, but rather whether your PROFESSIONAL peers do so.

In other words, if a director likes your music, then that is what counts.

Mind you, I find that MOST directors I've met, and many I've seen interviewed or read their thoughts "on filmscoring", I think are twits to start with.

Sadly, too many directors actually have VERY little musical knowledge and are quite easy to bamboozle with a bit of cheezy fireworks.

As well, too many directors are just happy to HAVE music in their movie and don't give a crap what it sounds like because they are entirely tone deaf to start with.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh or bitter, but it HAS been my experience. There are very few directors who have as fine a musical ear as Steven Spielberg. And unfortunately, most composers have very little chance of working with him.

to johnwilliamsfan:

you should have more self confidence and believe in yourself instead of

whining to other internet people whether they like your music or not.

(try reading Emerson's essay "Self Confidence." That will really boost you up)

If you really love your music, like you say, and are proud if it, then why do you

continually seek approval from others? Just trust your own genius, and do whatever

it tells you.

RKMajora: You've mentioned "the" John Williams before and that you're having/were having lessons with him.

As you can understand, it is hard to believe, so is there any way to back up your arguments? Given an analysis that you gave of the ET theme which was a bit off, imho, I find it hard to believe, but not impossible!

Second issue is YOUR music, which I privately asked you about and you never sent it over, although you promised to do and it's been more than a month now.

Now, I have no trouble believing and I have faith in human nature, but you do realise that you come off somewhat thin with what you say, don't you? (and btw, I would, personally again, cherrish Williams's every single word and not forget about it becasue I have bad memory "lol"!)

Nikolas, before your assumptions, I am getting the impression that you don't believe John Williams knows me and that you do believe my above post is somewhat appalling along with some film score review. You can come up with many more reasons to disassociate me with John Williams.

Also you are making quite a big deal out of the name John Williams, as if it just now belongs to an immortal God. You'd be surprized at what kind of people John Williams knows, who aren't as musically experienced as me, that there are and that there aren't. As I've said in a tongue or two, Williams formed many amazing experiences with my music, as he did with much of the music of students and appreciaters.

As for my music, I'd be happy to send links to purchase a soundtrack after its movie comes to dvd. Yes, you will be listening to a film score. As for now, the film is not even out in theatres. I will even be sure to tell you what the film is so you can pay your fare to see it.

I do remember posting a few samples on here. You can get the worst from them. Anything better is forbidden mainly to the internet world.

Your request won't be forgotten. I added it to my list.

Just to clarify... This post wasn't to help me like my own music better. (Not to sound arrogant, but I love my music.) It was to evaluate wether my fellow peers thought my music was of any worth.

Peers have given reviews on your musical submittions. Why then don't you refer to these? It's not exactly up to peers to tell you that you can take a step higher either. That's up to you and the professionals.

Of course I'm assuming, I can't be sure of anything.

In very short, it made me impression, that's all! :)

i agree with nikolas, that kid who's bragging about knowing john williams just wrote something ridiculous, he's either an expert prankster, or just plain silly.

anyway, kudos to the kid for making us all laugh.

To the kid who sez he knows Williams, haha. Well, y'know? I hope you learn something. Indeed, he's a famous person, and he knows probably a thing or two about business (like I've said, it's more interesting his career in the biz rather than his music.)

But if I were you I'd remember what he GODDAMN SAYS. Bring a notebook next time.

Wow, I just watched "Knockaround Guys" and the posts on this forum are starting to ring bells. LOL.

To the kid who sez he knows Williams, haha. Well, y'know? I hope you learn something. Indeed, he's a famous person, and he knows probably a thing or two about business (like I've said, it's more interesting his career in the biz rather than his music.)

But if I were you I'd remember what he GODDAMN SAYS. Bring a notebook next time.

I infact remember all of the converstations I had with Williams, and a few are continuous. I'm not an interviewer recording every detail of his.

I have no idea who you are, and why are you seeking acceptance from internet people who probably don't know you either.

Oh, and most of us probably won't make it.