Lesson with TVBoomer

SO, Tom.

The jazz trombone....where to begin. I understand you have an above average competency when it comes to trombone playing and technique, right?

You mentioned your working range in the PM as pedal-Bb to double-F. Which is well beyond what any professional would require. Can you just quickly elaborate on the trombone side of things - how's your sound? Flexability? Velocity? Stamina?

How do you warm up? Do you know/practices scales (which ones)?

I'm sure you've got most of your trombone scraggy together, but I'm just curious where you think your strengths and weaknesses are, trombonistically.

....

Looking forward to this! :thumbsup:

My sound is pretty symphonic--a singing, mellow sound--at this point... the upper and lower portions of my range are the best sounding, while the middle (G at the bottom of the bass clef staff to about Eb in the middle of the staff) suffers a little bit. I might be able to get you a recording of me playing (a jazz song, even! :] ) sometime soon.

My flexibility is decent... I can play from F just below bass clef to double F without an embouchure shift (although not with as nice of a tone as if I could adjust). My lip slurs and lip trills aren't as fast as I would like them to be.

Velocity is where I am particularly weak... my articulation is a little sub-par; double and triple-tonguing are still fairly new concepts that I'm working to improve, but at this point it sounds a little dirty.

Stamina-wise, I can hold up for quite some time... I can maintain a range up to double-high D having played several hours in the general upper register. (On a side-note, I also perform in my high-school marching band, and every year at homecoming we tour the entire school district and play songs at all of the schools, and then play at the homecoming football game... a good 15 hours out and about playing my instrument).

In regards to a warm-up, I don't have a particular prescribed warm-up that I perform. I do about 30 seconds of lip-slurring, give or take, and make an effort to strengthen the high range (ascending and descending from double Bb to double F and back again a couple times through), followed by the low range (lip slur from Bb to trigger F to pedal Bb, all the way down the register). Then I play a set of fast scales and arpeggios, Ionian and Dorian modes of the keys of Eb, Bb, F, C, G (in sixteenth notes at about mm80). I can play all of the scales, but some of the ones with more accidentals definitely slow me down.

My sound is pretty symphonic--a singing, mellow sound--at this point... the upper and lower portions of my range are the best sounding...my flexibility is decent... I can play from F just below bass clef to double F without an embouchure shift...

Velocity is where I am particularly weak... my articulation is a little sub-par; double and triple-tonguing are still fairly new concepts that I'm working to improve

...Stamina-wise, I can hold up for quite some time...

Cool.

It sounds like you've had a fairly good teacher, your range is impressive and it's great that you're trying to keep embouchure shift out of the picture.

Velocity is also probably not an issue. Double/triple tongue is rare in jazz playing; have you ever tried doodle-tonguing? No worries... I can't doodle, and am working on double tongue myself. Getting a quick, clean single tongue will be your best tool for the most part.

Stamina sounds good as well - it can be a hindrance if you're not used to playing a lot and can take a while to work up, something you seem to have already done.

:thumbsup:

In regards to a warm-up, I don't have a particular prescribed warm-up that I perform. I do about 30 seconds of lip-slurring, give or take, and make an effort to strengthen the high range (ascending and descending from double Bb to double F and back again a couple times through), followed by the low range (lip slur from Bb to trigger F to pedal Bb, all the way down the register). Then I play a set of fast scales and arpeggios, Ionian and Dorian modes of the keys of Eb, Bb, F, C, G (in sixteenth notes at about mm80). I can play all of the scales, but some of the ones with more accidentals definitely slow me down.

A warm-up, I've recently discovered, is immensely important. I was amazed, when I started doing a proper warm-up at how well it can prepare you: focusing your sound, centering your embouchure, essentially setting everything up. I take about 20 minutes (when I have the time) for my warm up.

Long tones for a good 10 minutes (very looooong, starting from middle-F working downward, then middle-Bb, t)hen low-Bb. Then some flexibility (lip slurs). All the while with a metronome and tuner, Then, when it feels good I'll start pushing the limits and work my way upwards to solidify upper range.

That's just how I do it, if your system works for you then so be it!

..........................

Now, when it comes to jazz playing, your scales are going to be the most important thing you'll need. Getting a instant and intimate familiarity with all of them will make everything else that much easier.

Knowing your Major, Melodic Minor (ascending), and Harmonic Minor scales COLD is the best place to start. It sounds like you have a good grasp of some of them, but working to solidify them - getting their patterns and sounds getting ingrained into your very soul - will make the next step come much more naturally.

Start slow, work around the cycle of 5ths, speed up as you see fit.

---------------------

This is probably how these lessons will work. I'll just throw scraggy at you and see how it sticks. Most of this stuff will need years of work to get it solid, but hopefully we'll get you blowing some hip scraggy with a little time.

;)

I'm also curious - what sort of equipment are you working with? I assume you've got a trigger horn, is it a medium bore?

Also, to whom have you listened to for jazz wise? I'll likely throw a bunch of listening "homework" at you as well...

Cool.

It sounds like you've had a fairly good teacher, your range is impressive and it's great that you're trying to keep embouchure shift out of the picture.

Velocity is also probably not an issue. Double/triple tongue is rare in jazz playing; have you ever tried doodle-tonguing? No worries... I can't doodle, and am working on double tongue myself. Getting a quick, clean single tongue will be your best tool for the most part.

Thanks! My teacher is really excellent... he's done a fantastic job. And I'm kinda glad to hear that multi-tonguing is rare in jazz. I've never actually doodle-tongued... to be honest, I don't really know what it is! :blush: If you could explain the concept, I would be most obliged!

A warm-up, I've recently discovered, is immensely important. I was amazed, when I started doing a proper warm-up at how well it can prepare you: focusing your sound, centering your embouchure, essentially setting everything up. I take about 20 minutes (when I have the time) for my warm up.

Long tones for a good 10 minutes (very looooong, starting from middle-F working downward, then middle-Bb, t)hen low-Bb. Then some flexibility (lip slurs). All the while with a metronome and tuner, Then, when it feels good I'll start pushing the limits and work my way upwards to solidify upper range.

That's just how I do it, if your system works for you then so be it!

I'll give this a shot... my instructor has told me to do this sort of thing as well, but I've lost a little of my zeal in maintaining the prescribed warm-up. I'll try to get back in the habit :thumbsup:

Now, when it comes to jazz playing, your scales are going to be the most important thing you'll need. Getting a instant and intimate familiarity with all of them will make everything else that much easier.

Knowing your Major, Melodic Minor (ascending), and Harmonic Minor scales COLD is the best place to start. It sounds like you have a good grasp of some of them, but working to solidify them - getting their patterns and sounds getting ingrained into your very soul - will make the next step come much more naturally.

Start slow, work around the cycle of 5ths, speed up as you see fit.

Can and will do. With the summer coming up, scales will be one of my first priorities to tackle.

This is probably how these lessons will work. I'll just throw scraggy at you and see how it sticks. Most of this stuff will need years of work to get it solid, but hopefully we'll get you blowing some hip scraggy with a little time.

;)

I'm also curious - what sort of equipment are you working with? I assume you've got a trigger horn, is it a medium bore?

The structure is working fine for me so far. Eventually I'm hoping to perhaps throw up a couple recordings, but the prerequisite to that would be finding a decent recording device and program.

Equipment-wise, I use a Yamaha Xeno Series F-Attachment Trombone... it's large-bore (.547"), with an 8 11/16" bell. My baby :D.

Also, to whom have you listened to for jazz wise? I'll likely throw a bunch of listening "homework" at you as well...

Load me up. I really only know of J. J. Johnson, and even then am unaware of what recordings I should be looking for. Name off a couple more artists and I'll be happy to listen.

...I've never actually doodle-tongued... to be honest, I don't really know what it is! If you could explain the concept, I would be most obliged!

It's a multiple tonguing technique - slightly more conducive to jazz playing. Doodle...it is as it sounds, and takes a while to figure it out. Perhaps more like: TOO-DUL......I'm only just now trying to figure it out myself, so doodling is by no means necessary, but you'll want it in your arsenal if anyone calls Cherokee at 300. ;) Conrad explains it better than I. It's up to you to decide if you want to work on it...

[re: solid warm-up] I'll give this a shot... my instructor has told me to do this sort of thing as well, but I've lost a little of my zeal in maintaining the prescribed warm-up. I'll try to get back in the habit :thumbsup:

I did the same thing - figured 5 minutes was enough. You'll be surprised at how much a good, solid warm-up can affect your entire day's worth of playing.

Equipment-wise, I use a Yamaha Xeno Series F-Attachment Trombone... it's large-bore (.547"), with an 8 11/16" bell. My baby :D.

Don't be afraid of bringing the big equipment into jazz situations - some guys will look at you funny, but in all seriousness more and more pros are going with bigger horns. Robin Eubanks, Steve Turre, Slide Hampton...

My next horn will be a med-large bore, possibly with the attachment...who knows. Whatever gets you the best, and most versatile sound is what's best for you.

[re: trombonists] Load me up. I really only know of J. J. Johnson, and even then am unaware of what recordings I should be looking for. Name off a couple more artists and I'll be happy to listen.

Okay, start digging around for:

J.J. Johnson (The Trombone Master, The Eminent JJ vols 1 & 2)

Curtis Fuller (on Coltrane's Blue Train, or with the Jazz Messengers: Caravan, Ugetsu)

Frank Rosolino (Fond Memories Of... , Free For All)

Carl Fontana (Live at Concord)

...

Others to be aware of: Jimmy Knepper, Jack Teagarden, Wycliffe Gordon, Robin Eubanks, Slide Hampton, Conrad Herwig, Ray Anderson, Steve Turre, Bill Watrous, Al Grey... And so many others. :P

I'll throw some stuff at you soon...

All right, sorry this took me so long... I have a couple of clips for you to listen to. I apologize in advance if they aren't 100% pleasing to hear... I have solos in both songs, however, and figure this might give you an idea of what I could use help with.

The first is a Duke Ellington tune, Blue Ramble. I have three short solos, one improvised at the beginning, and two written in. This is to give an idea of my sound.

Blue Ramble - Putfile.com

The second is a tune called "Two Seconds to Midnight". I have several solos in this as well, and a very lengthy one in the middle. This one demonstrates my issues... the articulation is sloppy, the ideas juvenile and repetitive, and the sound pinches off because I don't know exactly where I want to go. I basically run out of ideas, and am too limited by scales, I think. I dunno. At any rate, here it is:

Two Seconds to Midnight - Putfile.com

All right. Tear me a new one... just leave my band alone ;]

Okay,

You do have a good sound,especially for a younger player. And you obviously know your way around the horn.

As far as your ideas being juvenile and repetitive or lacking a clear direction - it boils down to unfamiliarity. As you absorb more of the language and vocabulary, you'll start to hear it more naturally. Solos will flow better and you'll be able to maintain the direction and energy throughout.

In regards to Two Seconds to Midnight, solos are mostly based around Fmin...actually, it's just a vamp/pedal on Fmin, right? That sort of static harmony is tough in the best of times to keep the energy up. We'll get some stuff going that'll help you think more jazzically.

;)

First off: know where you want to go. Have a clear goal in mind before you play a note. In this particular case, the rhythm section does a good job of coming WAY down to give you plenty of room to breathe. Where do you want to take it? - There's many options, many of which don't require any more advanced knowledge of chords or scales than you already have. Thinking in terms of tessitura (range), dynamics (volume), density/kinesis (motion, activity), dissonance (playing "wrong")...etc.

Modal tunes such as this (for example) lend themselves well to any treatment. SO, going into it, knowing the rhythm section will come down, start slow and quiet - find the 'hip' notes in the chord and milk them. BUT, all the while plan ahead - know that in 30 seconds, or 2 minutes you want to be playing more notes, in the upper register. A plan can be as simple as that, and as short (easier) or long (harder - you can hear Coltrane build and build towards a climax 4,5,6 choruses away).

With a modal tune you can use anything to build intensity and energy. Try finding a rhythm or melodic snippet that you can sit on, and develop.

...Some food for thought.

Thank you for the comments regarding sound. You put it nicely as far as my solo went... it did lose energy, and fast. I never really thought of actually planning out solos... I guess I've always thought of it in terms of short little licks that sound kind of cool, rather than in terms of the shape of the entire solo. I'm excited to give that a shot as soon as possible... I think I will put some money away to buy Band in a Box over the next couple weeks, and hopefully will be improvising along with that for a while.

I also purchased a couple of songs via iTunes; of particular note is the album "Kind of Blue", along with Chitlins by Carl Fontana. I'm kind of amazed at some of these solos... I really wish I could do this :]

:thumbsup:

Yes...listening and playing are the best things for you. Soon, I'll hook you up with some key Aebersolds and required listening...

;)

I also purchased a couple of songs via iTunes; of particular note is the album "Kind of Blue", along with Chitlins by Carl Fontana. I'm kind of amazed at some of these solos... I really wish I could do this :]

Kind of Blue is an absolute must-have, good choice! And don't worry, with practice and experience, you'll get there.

I'm working on a couple packs for you - some listening homework, and possibly a couple aebersolds to play along with, some good tunes to learn.

Do you have the capability to open .rar files?

Hmm... .rar is not a file type I am familiar with, unless it is the RealAudio/RealVideo file type. That seems plausible... if it's not affiliated with RealMedia, then I am unaware of the type... if it is, I can open it fine :]

Nah...it's just a compressed folder...not unlike winzip....can you open zipped folders? (This is really just to make it easier for you - download a single folder instead of each file individually)

;)

Tom,

You should now be in the possession of 21 tunes...listen to them, for they contain a great deal of knowledge and jazzical power.

------------------------------------------

Where to start:

• JJ Johnson - Is kind of the be-all and end-all of jazz trombone. He took the horn and adapted his technique to accommodate bebop with its angular melodies and complex harmonies.
  
  • Lover Man - The Eminent JJ Johnson, Vol. 1 (1953).
    
  • Yesterdays - Jay & Kai (1954)
    
  • What Is This Thing Called Love - The Trombone Master (1957)
    

  Listen for his phrasing and articulation. He's sooooo clean, and precise - rarely a note out of tune, out of time, or out of place.

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Curtis Fuller - The hard-bop superstar. Adapted JJ's innovations as well: fast and clean. JJ invented modern trombone...

  • Locomotion - John Coltrane's Blue Train (1957) [NB: Coltrane is killing, and Lee Morgan plays one of the hippest trumpet solos of all time]
    
  • It's Alright With Me - The Jazztet w/ Benny Golson (1959)
    

  Again, listen for stylistic things - phrasing, articulation. These guys modernized the instrument - developing a language and vocabulary that we all still use today...

  ------------------------------------------

  I went backwards a bit, the grand-father of modern-trombone:

  [*]Jack Teagarden. Sraight up swinger in the New Orleans and Big Band eras, but somehow got away from the 'ragged' and guttural tailgate-trombone. Cleaned it up and played some hip scraggy.

  • Sunny Side of the Street - with Louis Armstrong (1945)
    

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Frank Rosolino - this guy will blow your mind. Developed a VERY distinct and personal style, NO ONE could/can/ever will play like this. His effortless upper register and across the grain playing is astounding.

  • All The Things You Are - Fond Memories Of... (1973ish)
    
  • I Love You - Fond Memories Of... (1973ish)
    
  • There Is No Greater Love - Free For All (1953)
    

  This guy swung his donkey off, and played the scraggy out of the trombone. Dig the feel... and how he gets around the horn. Devastating.

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Carl Fontana - worked up a dangerously fast doodle-tongue. Also, a super-clean sound. Again, a hard swinging cat, perhaps not harmonically adventurous, but the feel is often more important than being hip.

  • Beautiful Friendship - Live At Concord (1975)
    
  • Polkadots and Moonbeams - The Great Fontana (1985)
    
  • It Might As Well Be Spring - The Great Fontana (1985)
    

  It's soooo clean, even at higher velocities - streams of 8ths like in Might As Well Be Spring. The unaccompanied stuff (near the ends of Beautiful Friendship and Might As Well) is stunning...his TIME is flawless. Dig also the phrasing and stylistic ballad playing (Carl is killing on ballads) on Polkadots.

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Jimmy Knepper - another distinct stylist, yet often overlooked. His work with Charles Mingus is way-cool. Eschewing the typical trombonistic 'stuff' he has a very individual sound.

  • cat Cat Dues - Charles Mingus' Ah Um (1959) [Another indispensible record]
    

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Bill Watrous - Another doodler, but it possibly the greatest technician on the trombone ever. There's nothing this guy can't do. He's the fastest/highest/prettiest whatever... In my book, he's not the most musical, but he is REALLY impressive. So, here...

  • Blue Bossa - with Nick Brignola LA Bound (1979)
    
  • Indian Summer - Bone-Ified (1992)
    

  ------------------------------------------

  Now, for some some more 'modern' guys.

  [*]Ray Anderson - One of my favorite players, very personal style.

  • Love Me or Leave Me - Old Bottles New Wine (1985)
    
  • Portrait of Mark Dresser - Right Down Your Alley (1984)
    

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Wycliffe Gordon - Amazing technque, all over the horn...there not much this man can't do. Scary...but (in my opinion) perhaps not the most musical of players. You decide.

  • Ba-Lue Bolivar Balues-Are - The Search (2000)
    

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Robin Eubanks - Great technique, with some very distinct charactristics. Thick sound...plays a big thick horn. Has a tendency for quiky, angular lines, very advanced harmonic language.

  • You Don't Know What Love Is - Different Perspectives (1988)
    
  • Jugglers Parade - Dave Holland Quintet, Prime Directive (1999)
    

  ------------------------------------------

  [*]Conrad Herwig - A doodler who picked up where Carl Fontana and Bill Watrous left off. Advanced harmonic language - fond of pentatonic and quartal approaches. Very strong technique: doodles, across the grain - fast and super-clean. Scary.

  • Triangle - Unseen Universe (2000)
    

You dig?

This is ridiculously fantastic... thank you very much for all of these. I'll be sure to get on them and have them on loop whenever I have a free minute to listen to music... hopefully I can do some learning by osmosis :P

No problem... Let me know when you get a chance to listen to some of them; what you think, who you like, who you don't like.

Listening experience will help you become familiar with jazz playing - phrasing, articulation, sound, feel, time... paying attention to the masters will help infinitely.

;)

If you don't

7-Zip

I'm becoming really fond of some of these ballads... Polkadots and Moonbeams is really good! How does Fontana do that really soft tonguing style? I must know! :]

I'm becoming really fond of some of these ballads... Polkadots and Moonbeams is really good! How does Fontana do that really soft tonguing style? I must know! :]

:thumbsup: What he's doing is the result of a very light, legato tongue. Combined with a lot of alternate positions and playing across-the-grain - but getting it SUPER smooth and clean.

Tricky stuff, especially at slow tempos!

Stay tuned, I'll throw some scale/cycle/arpeggio patterns at you soon...also Aebersold Vol. 1.

All right Robin, I've been working on these Aebersold exercises as well as listening to these jazz pieces. I'm working mostly on scale memorization at this point... I have most of the majors down to sixteenths at about mm90-100. It's a lot of material to wade through... do you have any suggestions on how to approach it? I feel like I don't know where to start.

...do you have any suggestions on how to approach it? I feel like I don't know where to start.

Start by familiarizing yourself with common progressions. The most obvious of which is movement by 5ths.

Know the cycle of 5ths COLD...

Play arpeggios around the cycle

C,E,G,F,A,C,Bb,D,F,Eb,G,Bb...and so on.

Then lock into ii-V's: iimin7, V7, I. (Dmin7, G7, CMaj) you'll see them EVERYWHERE.

SO, play 7th arpeggios, around ii-V's.

For example: C,Eb,G,Bb,F,A,C,Eb,Bb,D,F,A,Bb,F,D,Bb (up Cmin7, up F7, up/down BbMaj7).

Then start on Bbmin7... Do it starting in different places so you cover all Major, minor and dominant arpeggios.

Also, play the corresponding chord/scale around ii-V's.

Dorian, Mixolydian, Ionian (Lydian, if you want to be hip)

Yell if this doesn't make sense... ;)

...

Basically, you want to solidify these sounds in your head, and your arm.

Robin -

I'm sorry that I haven't responded to this thread in so long... like you mentioned earlier, there's only so much that's doable without being able to hear progress and play together. I just want to thank you for the work it took to compile all of the music and Aebersolds into files to transfer for me... they have been a joy to listen to and practice and have (hopefully) laid the groundwork for a significant improvement in my improvisational ability. I'll try and keep this periodically updated with my progress, but with college apps and work and the like I've been really busy of late, and have really only been able to focus on my virtuosic repertoire for the upcoming auditions. I'll try and keep you posted, and maybe throw up a recording or two at a later date, but for now a "thank-you" is all I can offer. Thanks again!

Robin -

I'm sorry that I haven't responded to this thread in so long... like you mentioned earlier, there's only so much that's doable without being able to hear progress and play together. I just want to thank you for the work it took to compile all of the music and Aebersolds into files to transfer for me... they have been a joy to listen to and practice and have (hopefully) laid the groundwork for a significant improvement in my improvisational ability. I'll try and keep this periodically updated with my progress, but with college apps and work and the like I've been really busy of late, and have really only been able to focus on my virtuosic repertoire for the upcoming auditions. I'll try and keep you posted, and maybe throw up a recording or two at a later date, but for now a "thank-you" is all I can offer. Thanks again!

You're very welcome - I think you've got plenty of material to wade through, but you're just going to augment your already solid foundation. Keep it up, let me know how all the applications and scraggy go. And, feel free to ask any more questions as you go along!

:)