Mozart sonatas

That's exactly the kind of instrument I'm trying to learn the Haydn on. I am fortunate enough to own a Peter Fisk reproduction of an Andreas Stein instrument (Viennese) from about 1785, perfect for this kind of music, and certainly for Mozart as well. Playing the fortepiano presents its own problems, though, as I'm finding out.

It's interesting that Haydn's sonatas should be so challenging - almost as much so as Mozart's, some maybe more - especially considering that while he was a capable pianist by any measure, he was by no means the virtuoso that Mozart was. Haydn's writing is so individual, so marvelously quirky. It's really a pleasure.

*sigh*, I want a pianoforte so badly :sadtears:....or at least to play on one. You are lucky, J. Lee! You say there are some problems, though...what kind of problems?

Oh, and I've also just learned (during spring semester of college, I mean) the first movement of Haydn's sonata no. 37. yeah, it's fun stuff :happy:. I agree that it's probably easier on a pianoforte, modern pianos have a too full of a sound (especially mine :P).

You say there are some problems, though...what kind of problems?

Poor choice of words. "Challenges" is a better one. The touch is so incredibly light and delicate, that it takes a true command of the keyboard to do it justice. The modern piano is infinitely forgiving compared to the exquisite delicacy of the Viennese fortepiano action.

This is getting even more off topic but if you can ever find it I was told there ois a recording of the various pianos Beethoven wrote his sonatas for. Very interesting stuff. It would be interesting to hear the same type of recording for some of Hadyn's. Especially as his last three sonatas are written for the English pianoforte -- the 1st movement of his last especially doesn't sound so great on a Viennesse pianoforte. But the famous piannissimo damper pedal passage in his last C major one sounds infinitely better on a pianoforte than a modern piano.

Yeah, there is an amazing contrast between the Stein instruments Beethoven played early in his career and the much larger instruments he was playing toward the end of his life. My favourite recording of his 1st and 2nd Piano Concerti is on a light and airy little 5-octave Viennese; hard to believe, but the sound is a revelation.

I read somewhere that Mozart liked Stein instruments very much, but owned a Walther because Steins were too expensive. Wonder if that's true.

Yeah, there is an amazing contrast between the Stein instruments Beethoven played early in his career and the much larger instruments he was playing toward the end of his life. My favourite recording of his 1st and 2nd Piano Concerti is on a light and airy little 5-octave Viennese; hard to believe, but the sound is a revelation.

I read somewhere that Mozart liked Stein instruments very much, but owned a Walther because Steins were too expensive. Wonder if that's true.

Yes! I have the 5 concerti on period instruments with the Academy of Ancient Music - is that what you've got?

*Period instrument nerds*

The sound is really surprising. The Emperor sounds totally different - remember it was written about 1808, when the pianos were still relatively small.

By the way, (not directed at Lee) the name is fortepiano. Pianoforte is the name for our pianos today. OK, so maybe in France they called it pianoforte, and Mozart even used the name once or twice.... but the proper name is fortepiano.

Also, Lee, yea, Mozart raves about the Steins in his letters.

Yes! I have the 5 concerti on period instruments with the Academy of Ancient Music - is that what you've got?

The very same! There are some great performances on that record. I probably should have mentioned the other 3 concerti, but the first two really hit me where I live. I guess they're representative of Beethoven before he got, well...so very, very Beethoveny. Not saying there's anything wrong with that...but the Rondo of the 2nd Concerto is perhaps the most perfectly balanced Classical rondo I know of. I can't quit analyzing it, having found a good rondo movement a challenge to compose most of my life.

By the way, (not directed at Lee) the name is fortepiano. Pianoforte is the name for our pianos today. OK, so maybe in France they called it pianoforte, and Mozart even used the name once or twice.... but the proper name is fortepiano.

I know your comment was probably aimed at people who were using the word 'pianoforte' to mean 'some period instrument different to normal piano', but....

It's intriguing that the words 'fortepiano' and 'pianoforte' were, in fact, used interchangeably for a very long time throughout Europe. Christofori originally called his instrument a 'gravecembalo col piano e forte', and most subsequent references to the instrument simply call it a 'Pian' et fort'. Over time, presumably because it's easier to say, the word is sometimes seen as 'forte et piano' or 'fortepiano'. In English, while the word 'pianoforte' crops up as early as 1741, 'fortepiano' doesn't appear (at least not written down) until thirty years later.

It seems that it's only relatively recently that the word 'fortepiano' started applying only to period instruments. Since 'fortepiano' applies to a huge spectrum of different instruments from Christofori to Beethoven anyway, it's probably best to describe them by period, or manufacturer.

I'm listening to KV399 currently, and was just about to write a praiseworthy review of the opening Ouverture-Allegro (it appears the suite was left unfinished), when I heard three, consecutive parallel fifths blare out from my PC speakers! Other than that hiccough though, the work is really rather interesting.

You still haven't said where the parallel fifths are. Where are they?

Mozart's late string quartets (and other chamber works) are getting rather complex and chromatic.

And while the harmonies and theory of his piano sonatas are simple, the small (tiny) things he does are rarely done by any other composers - they are actually quite complex though overlooked in analysis.

Mozart's late string quartets (and other chamber works) are getting rather complex and chromatic.

Yeah! The 2nd 'Prussian' quartet K.590 contains some *very* modern, very chromatic ideas for 1789 or whenever he wrote it, especially in the minuet.

And of course the 'Dissonance' quartet has that really eerie opening, and further strange inflexions even in the bright Allegro that follows (listen for when there are triplets).

what i love about mozart's music is that i cant find anything wrong with it. everything is perfect.

I do think some of Mozart's music is the most universal feeling-ed ones.

Like one trio in Cosi fan Tutte, hmm, Soave something something. It's beautiful.

Or Non ti fidar from Don Giovanni.

I could probably name a few more.

Like one trio in Cosi fan Tutte, hmm, Soave something something. It's beautiful.

I believe you mean this one: Soave sia il vento

A particularly fine performance of one of the most magical moments in all of opera (it's also frightfully difficult, though these singers make it sound effortless).

Few composers surpass Mozart's mastery of the operatic ensemble.

Yes indeed! That one! And this particular recording is great!

Mozart, oh Mozart...

I don't particularly like listening to Mozart but I really appreciated him more after working through some of his piano sonatas. They are so balanced and feel so right to the touch. There's not a single extraneous note in his music; it all falls right into place with its simplicity.

Well said.

That reminds me of a line Salieri utters in the film "Amadeus" when describing Mozart's music:

"...remove a single note, and there would be diminishment; a single phrase, and the structure would fall...I was staring through the cage of those meticulous ink strokes at an absolute beauty!"

mozart's music = flawless

mozart's music = flawless

Nah. He wrote three parallel fifths in his first symphony! Any eight-year-old can do better than that...:P

(Anyway, I disagree, but it really depends on what you define as a flaw. I don't consider flawless music to be the ultimate goal, anyway.)

And how. I've been trying to learn a Haydn sonata for a year; deceptively difficult. I gave up on the Beethoven Op. 14 in G I was messing with.

Wow... I played the first movement of that sonata in my 2nd year of piano lessons with a private teacher/friend. I forgot it, though... You made me want to play it again. :P

There's a sequence with low thirds I just adore...

If you could play that in your second year of piano lessons, more power to you!

i adore perfection and balance .Mozart is my favorite composer.

i adore perfection and balance .Mozart is my favorite composer.

lets be friends :toothygrin:

Even Mozarts early stuff was catchy. String Quartet K.156, and the opera Apollo et Hyacinthus K. 38. which he wrote at 11 years old.

I'm a big fan of Mozart's Don Giovanni and his ironically unfinished Requiem.