Female Composers/Musicians?

The idea that men favour dissonance more than women seems entirely random to me and is in no way confirmed by the listening experience I had. It seems to me that a lot of the people who say all this nonsense haven't actually heard much music composed by female composers.

Not only that, but I have no goddamn idea what "feminine" sounding music is supposed to sound like. It just takes a girl knowing what people define as "masculine" sounding music to write something accordingly and totally gently caress everyone's definition.

And, haha, of course nobody can tell who wrote anything just by seeing or hearing it. Look at Frankenstein, come on.

Touche.

I think the idea that women's brains are disposed to steer them away from composition and that it is a more attractive vocation to men than to women absurd. Composition is a blank slate, not a hobby like model airplanes or NASCAR. It's true men and women have different neurological dispositions, but to me it seems obvious that this would affect the way they compose, not whether they do.

Let's just say that the physical differences between men and women don't make women less likely to compose than men. They have still led to societal factors that affect whether women compose, no? Only since the advent of industry have women become much more common in composition, and that's because of physical differences between men and women mattering less and less.

Call me a pacifist, but frankly, who gives a damn?

Music is Music. As a composer, I don't care who plays my music, so long as it's done well. As a performer, I don't care who writes the music I play, so long as I have a good time playing it, and they know how to write well.

All that said, however, I think that over the next few weeks, I will be paying attention to the sex of the composer/performer, to see if I can see any discernible difference.

If any of you sat down in a women's studies or gender studies class, you probably wouldn't survive.

Psst, generalizations~

Most of the works by "famous" women composers like Amy Beach or Marion Bauer don't impress me very much but there have been so few women composers historically that this proves nothing. The handful of famous male composers are in proportion to the thousands of male composers throughout history. Women should be encouraged to compose if they want to, who knows what genius is lurking in that half of the population ;)

If any of you sat down in a women's studies or gender studies class, you probably wouldn't survive.

That's why I don't sign up for classes where I'll be lectured by a feminazi for three hours a week.

Hi-oh!

Mind giving us some proof of that "simple fact"?

Ok, this isn't proof, but it's references some credible sources...

I always assumed that it was generally accepted than male and female brains worked differently. I don't know how you could deny it.

Are There Differences between the Brains of Males and Females?

So maybe nothing in this article suggests that there are specific differences in male and female brains that make males more likely to like to compose, but that wasn't the point of my argument. My argument was:

1. Male and female brains are different, and male and female brains are more apt at different things.

2. Perhaps this accounts for the fact that there are more males that like to compose than female.

The "simple fact" pertained to number 1, not number 2.

Most of the works by "famous" women composers like Amy Beach or Marion Bauer don't impress me very much but there have been so few women composers historically that this proves nothing. The handful of famous male composers are in proportion to the thousands of male composers throughout history. Women should be encouraged to compose if they want to, who knows what genius is lurking in that half of the population ;)

I agree - if there were a much greater number of female composers, we would see more great female composers. But I just don't think composition attracts women as much as it attracts men.

I think the idea that women's brains are disposed to steer them away from composition and that it is a more attractive vocation to men than to women absurd. Composition is a blank slate, not a hobby like model airplanes or NASCAR. It's true men and women have different neurological dispositions, but to me it seems obvious that this would affect the way they compose, not whether they do. And in my experience, it does. The women composers I have known have tended to write music more focused on textures and expression of emotion. I have never known a woman composer who has written something as grandiose and, well masculine as some of the things I have written. Obviously, this is another generalization. But the old quote of Voltaire might apply here: "The composition of a tragedy requires testicles". Perhaps women in general are too good at dealing with their emotions, at forgiving their transgressors. Most of the great artists of the past have been deeply conflicted or injured. I can see, or sense, how this must work. A deep pain has a way of opening one up to the emotional intensity of everything around him. Van Gogh, Beethoven, Mozart, etc. Is that the reason some women are known to write technically proficient yet uninspiring works? Maybe. I dunno.

P.S. I've never been a woman, so my ideas are necessarily one-sided. I do enjoy the company of them, though. As often as possible. :P Seriously, though.

P.P.S. Yes, I am a sexist bastard. Kind of. Just a little.

I like your opinion.

Ick. Maybe if you knew what the subject was actually about. :whistling:

I know what it's about at my school, at least.

Feminazism.

I think it's an interesting question. As stated above I think historically women have never had the chance to write music as prolifically as men have, that's not to say that they don't want to it's just the socio-historical context didn't allow it.

I haven't really heard many female composers or have much knowledge but Pauline Oliveros seems to me to be quite important. One of her ideas (can't think of a better word, treatise perhaps?) is that females are more intuitive then males and therefore better at creative improvisation then males. Moreover due to male dominancy of the art form the ways in which we judge music are purely male orientated.

I don't really like the idea that women's music is "weak", Debbie Wiseman's score for Arsene Lupin (Arsene Lupin)is wonderfully massive and gothic and rivals Elfman. Whereas Debbie Wiseman, perhaps is more mellow and relaxing. But then so can any male composer...

I think that women composers are starting to get their rightful place next to male composers but I think sadly it's a fledgling field and therefore needs a lot more study and oppertunities.

I think it is sort of like the whole math/science/physics things. For such a long time, women were never encouraged or allowed to study math, so men got a head start. I think its the same as composing.

The divide is shrinking. More and more you see women composers, conductors, performers occupying the upper echelon of music. The trend for male dominance in jazz has been reversing for years with many HEAVY female players/composers ...I expect the same in classical, though perhaps slower.

My Guitarist friend made an interesting (well, not really) statement today about Guitarists. I very stupidly said, "There are predominantely more pianists than guitarists in the classical concert world, and they have more of a place", but then I quickly realised that 1) That is SOOO incorrect and 'generalised', and 2) The only reason I don't here of as many guitarists as pianists, is because I don't look for them.

So I guess this may change my thinking on female composers: My general statement that a lot of women's music is bad is probably just because the females whose music ive heard was crap. If I actually bother to look for females composers...perhaps then I will find something worth my while. BTW: the female composers mentioned in this thread, ive never heard of before...which goes to show that I haven't looked.

goodridge, remember that if you heard a few pieces written by men that happened to be crap, it would not mean that all male composers were crap! Fact is only a small percentage of composers are going to write truly remarkable work regardless of gender!

There's nothing wrong with females, I agree... We do tend to multitask quite a bit but... I think that females just do things, composing included, differently than males because of the basic human structure...

You're right. I really do like her...

The womans place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant...(sarcasm heavy and pointed)

Just mentioning it reinforces it. Bad.

And a healthy distribution of condescending condemnation creates a polarized environment in which opportunistic ideologs reinforces the bigotry you claim I'm reinforcing. Learn to lighten up and laugh at the absurd. Oh yeah, and be sure your brain doesn't fall out of that open mind of yours.

gosh. some people are a bit harsh with their words.

Well there are no girls on the internet, but there are girls in the music business

Yeah there is a difference between witty sarcasm and mentioning something for mentioning something's sake.

Then covering your donkey with a large donkey compound sentence and too much large vocabulary words... that isn't much better.

I make no apologies for my statement, especially considering its context in the thread.

Allow me to restate my previous response in real little words so i don't lose you. All i was saying was that when a person(you) over reacts to an obviously absurd remark by looking down on them and treating them like a four year old, and deciding whether their actions were good or bad, it makes someone upset at the implications.

All I wanted, was to make an absurd remark, then let people continue on, and now we've sidetracked this thread.

I make no apologies for my statement, especially considering it's context in the thread.

Allow me to restate my previous response in real little words so i don't lose you.

Real little words? Perhaps you'd better learn the little words before using them.

its/it's

BOOM.

P.s.: I only make off-topic grammar slams when people are being idiots. Have a nice day.

All I wanted, was to make an absurd remark, then let people continue on, and now we've sidetracked this thread.

Please, you just wanted to stir up controversy, and you aren't fooling anyone.