The opus thread

[Romanticist]

OK, since I am interested in knowing the answers to two things as of now I decided to make this thread, I am actually not 100% sure that this is the appropriate forum so correct me if you must. Please ignore this thread and the following questions if you feel inclined to.

I wanted to ask you, the general population, of YC 2 questions (1) How many works or "opera" have each of you created, and (2), What actually defines the word (musically) opus. For example if someone was to make a little 1 minute long ditty would that count as an entire opus? Has any composer made hundred of little ditties and thus ended up with hundreds of opera? I have also included a poll as to show opinion on this matter.

[SSC]

I don't think there's any criteria for this. But, think that back in Mozart, etc's day you couldn't just publish a single 1 minute piece, or single pieces altogether. You had to bunch up a lot of pieces and release them as a collection. Therefore, it was natural to bunch them also under the same opus number for the sake of organization. This trend went on and on, but by modern times, it doesn't matter if things have an opus number at all.

You can as well call something an opus even if it lasts 30 seconds. Look at Webern.

[jujimufu]

True, Webern has some very short pieces. On the other hand, the word "Opus" means nothing more than "Work", so basically, if you write something and consider it your work, there you go, "Opus X+1", where X is the previous amount of works :D

[Old Composer]

I've finished like 6. Maybe. I don't know. Let me count them out:

Almost Like the Rain

Solo for Tambourine and Percussion Ensemble

Insights into Transience for Trumpet and Piano

Insights into Transience for Chamber Ensemble

Quick Trio in c minor

Valley of Sound

Solo for Flute

I'm working on a few pieces. So I'll be up to like 10 by the fall.

Not very impressive, I know.

[nikolas]

1. I've not done any opera, up to date!

I've must've written around... 30 'serious' works (for my studies mainly) and many many more for my own enjoyement and work in computer games.

In my masters I composed 11 works, all with score, most mid/small scale and 2-3 larger scale (more than 20 pages, let's say). For my PhD I have composed to date 6 big big works, each one worthy of an "opus"! Pre master works are plenty as well, and solo piano works, symphonic, etc.

One could check some of my music (with scores mostly) in this forum, if they click on my profile and check the threads I've started.

2. Opus can be anything really, as long as it is unique and individual; meaning:

If you have 1 small miniature alone, it can be an opus.

If you have 24 big big preludes (Rachmaninov for example), they could also be 1 opus, even if they spread over 100 pages or so.

3 movements in a sonata is 1 single opus.

Opus has to do with:

i. the connection between works. A small work could very well be an opus. Single page works are fine, if they are indiependant of anything else. If they are in a series of works simmilar in ideas, style, or coherency, then the whole is the opus, not each individual piece.

ii. Publishing. Some people have published small works individually. Prokofiev Tocatta op. 11, 4 minutes, 16 pages, fine as an opus. Sarcasm, again... Other works.

The C# minor prelude by Rach has an indiependant opus, I believe and was published alone. The other 23 (or were they 24, 25 in total) were published in 2 volumes, 2 opus.

Beethoven sonatas are usually unique opus, but small sonatinas were published together thus the op.15 no.1 op.15 No. 2 etc...

[Mark]

Nikolas explains it pretty damned well.

I have - as of yet - not written a single opus, and I don't think I shall for at least another year or so. I want to save opus numbers for significant works that I am really proud of, and I won't be writing anything like that for quite a while methinks.

[James H.]

Beethoven sonatas are usually unique opus, but small sonatinas were published together thus the op.15 no.1 op.15 No. 2 etc...

and the sonatas op.27 nos. 1 and 2. There are many more. (and when I say many I mean just a few :P)

Anyways, to answer Ramone's question, I have 29 opera (I hope everybody here knows that is the plural of opus, you'd be surprised at the amount of people in our field of music that forget or never knew that) but as a list of ''completed'' works, it is inaccurate. I should probably go back and create a unique list for all my finished works and add to that when I ''finish'' a new work, but that will be a different list. When I officially publish a work, I will call that Opus 1. Currently my list of finished works looks like this:

Op.1 - Fantasia in C, "Spring Spirits" (solo piano)

Op.2 - Two 'Preludes' (solo piano)

- No.1 in G major "Trillium"

- No.2 in Ab major "The King's Courts"

Op.3 - Two Marches (solo piano)

- No.1 in B minor "Marche Espanole"

- No.2 in F# minor "Tanze Marziale"

Op.4 - String Quartet(ino) in G major (three movements)

Op.5 - Two Waltzes (solo piano)

- No.1 in G minor

- No.2 in C major

Op.6 - Six Rhapsodies for Concert Band

Op.7 - March and Minuet in F (two short pieces, solo piano)

Op.8 - Romanze in F# minor for String Quintet

Op.9 - Depictions of Persons Suite (orchestra, currently 14 completed movements)

Op.10 - Valse in G minor, ''Valse in Blue Notes''

Op.11 - ''Celeste'' for Concert Band (a standalone piece)

Op.12/1 - Duet for Two Bassoons (three movements)

Op.12/2 - Duet for Two Bassoons (a single movement)

Op.13 - Suite for Brass Choir

- I Coronation in Bb major

- II Todesmarsch in D minor

- III Der Erlk

[jujimufu]

Also in your signature, there's a link to your Variations on John Brown's Body for Horn and Orchestra, and apparently it's the 29th of your 15 works :O It says Op.29 in your signature..

and you are also working on the 27th of your 15 works, according to your signature.. is it telling the future? :O

[Mark]

Also in your signature, there's a link to your Variations on John Brown's Body for Horn and Orchestra, and apparently it's the 29th of your 15 works :O It says Op.29 in your signature..

and you are also working on the 27th of your 15 works, according to your signature.. is it telling the future? :O

Anyways, to answer Ramone's question, I have 29 opera ... Currently my list of finished works looks like this:

Op.1 - Fantasia in C, "Spring Spirits" (solo piano)

Op.2 - Two 'Preludes' (solo piano)

- No.1 in G major "Trillium"

- No.2 in Ab major "The King's Courts"

Op.3 - Two Marches (solo piano)

- No.1 in B minor "Marche Espanole"

- No.2 in F# minor "Tanze Marziale"

Op.4 - String Quartet(ino) in G major (three movements)

Op.5 - Two Waltzes (solo piano)

- No.1 in G minor

- No.2 in C major

Op.6 - Six Rhapsodies for Concert Band

Op.7 - March and Minuet in F (two short pieces, solo piano)

Op.8 - Romanze in F# minor for String Quintet

Op.9 - Depictions of Persons Suite (orchestra, currently 14 completed movements)

Op.10 - Valse in G minor, ''Valse in Blue Notes''

Op.11 - ''Celeste'' for Concert Band (a standalone piece)

Op.12/1 - Duet for Two Bassoons (three movements)

Op.12/2 - Duet for Two Bassoons (a single movement)

Op.13 - Suite for Brass Choir

- I Coronation in Bb major

- II Todesmarsch in D minor

- III Der Erlk

[Yagan Kiely]

I have around 60, haven't counted lately.

A few are unfinished but still extensive.

I don't like cheating the system and waiting until I write a 'great' work until I label it my first work. I'd rather people see the history of my works and how I progressed. I want them to see how crap I started!

[Romanticist]

Thanks everyone for the reply..funny, I'm still the one of the only ones who voted yes for the poll, thanks a billion for your extensive reply nikolas and you to enigmus :)

[James H.]

Currently my list of finished works looks like this: ...

In my signature there is a link to my profile and if you follow that you will come across a complete listing of all my works, finished and unfinished, and you can see all the works that I did NOT include in the list above, since they were either cruddy, or unfinished. My current opus list just shows the order I started writing pieces...

See now? Say I just finished Op.29. Today, I just started something. I called it Op.30 because it came after the last one I did. Say I get an idea tomorrow, and start something else and call it Op.31 since it is entirely new. In the meantime I've completely run into a compositional roadblock with Op.30 and left it unfinished - yet it is still in order as no.30. That is how my main list is. The one I typed out in my above post was a list I made up that ONLY included finished works - my FULL list includes unfinished works as well. See now? :P

I suppose I could say I have my full list as an incentive to make something out of all the unfinished works I have in there that are hogging up opus numbers. :happy:

[Flint]

What *I* think an opus should be, is a work that the composer is proud of. Something he (she!) is willing to put in a list of works that will be put out into the public, listened to, and PLAYED. If you're embarrassed to include a work, you don't have to designate an opus, as simple as that.

I can empathize with this sentiment... my 'Symphony #2' is actually like Symphony #6. I have plenty of works that I wrote in college (or after) that I simply don't wish to include, many of them written as theory projects, experiments, or to fulfill some other purpose.

I use programmatic titles to tell everything apart instead of opus numbers, for the most part. I don't think I'll ever indicate 'Op. 1' until a piece has been really commercially published.

[Gardener]

I never give my pieces opus numbers either. I just write the year(s) and months when I wrote it on top of it, so I can still keep some order for myself.

I do make a certain distinction between "fun pieces"/exercises and "serious pieces", but it isn't very strict and there are many pieces which fall somewhere inbetween, or change into another "category" after some time. It has nothing to do with the length of the piece however, but rather with how serious my effort behind it was (note: not how -big- the effort was or how long it took me) and to some degree also whether I can accept the piece in the long term. There are pieces that, in retrospect, just don't seem independant and personal enough for me to consider them "major pieces", but as I said, the distinction isn't very clear.

[ablyth]

The opus number is a publication number that bears no relation to order in which works are written or the date of publication. That is why there is confusion over the opus number and symphony number of someone like Dvorak. The opus number is created by the publisher. Dvorak's publisher assigned numbers to his symphonies and opus numbers according to what he published. When he wanted to make an early work look like a new one he gave it a later opus number. Consequently Dvorak has opus numbers with nothing in them (no work assigned), early juvenile works with late numbers and mature works with early numbers.

Beethoven also has WoO - works without opus number presumably which were published but after his death when the publisher could not determine what an appropriate number would be.

Assigning an opus number today, given that little actually gets printed for sale anymore, is really just a convention left over from the 19th century. In a time when little was printed for sale, (such as Bach) the term was not widely used. Bach's total number of opi would have been about 5 (I am guessing) but the convention wasn't used probably because I think he self-published. Handel's opi go up to about 10-12?

[James H.]

"Opi"? I'm sorry, but I have to chuckle a little.

... 29 opera (I hope everybody here knows that is the plural of opus, you'd be surprised at the amount of people in our field of music that forget or never knew that)

I personally have never heard "opi" ... is that a real word? The wonders of Google are failing to answer that question for me right now.

[Guest QcCowboy]

"technically", a work gets an opus number when it is published only.

however, it IS a handy way to catalogue works, even unpublished ones.

[Flint]

I personally have never heard "opi" ... is that a real word? The wonders of Google are failing to answer that question for me right now.

The plural of 'opus' is 'opera'.

[Mark]

The plural of 'opus' is 'opera'.

:laugh:

[Old Composer]

...I just call them pieces.

I don't like the word 'opus'. It's always rubbed me the wrong way.

[Guest thatguy]

damnit, I was going to say that....

but I agree it does help catalogue your own works, with or without publication...then again I sometimes see members here posting "blah blah blah for violin, op.184"....kinda urks me

[Flint]

:laugh:

CRUCIO!

[Mark]

Protego!

[Flint]

Hrm. The force is strong with this one.

[ablyth]

Thanks Flint for correcting my non-existent latin grammar. Opi - obviously I meant opera.