Music/ Language Relation, Frequency of Pitches, Intervals, Composition Flow Chart

Scientists (linguists/anthropologists?) are saying that musical ability in humans developed as a consequence of language acquisition. I took the relationship seriously and mapped the chart I have for frequency of tone occurrences onto another chart I have for frequency of letters in English to use sentences to generate melodic series and mapped to another chart for frequency of rhythms.

The tone occurrences I gave before are 1534726 although there is an equal chance of there being a 5 or a 3 etc... Other notes are also like this but I won

Rhythms are the killer. I’ve got a chart favoring eighth notes by having 10 "pairs of eighth notes" but only one "sixteenth note rest followed by two sixteenth notes followed by another sixteenth note rest" which occurs very infrequently. The total chart has 97 items (9 dotted eighths followed by sixteenths etc...)

One of the things you realize even after only a cursory look at songbooks (I’ve currently got Mariah Carey, U2, Sting, Santana, Bob Marley and George Benson) is that any rhythm can be repeated up to 32 and even 64 times, even a normally very infrequent rhythm. So, there can’t just be one of those infrequent rhythms because we may need to use it 64 times. So it means if we’re going to have enough of the most infrequent rhythm just in case we want to use it that much, we need more items in the list. 97 multiplied by 64 is 6, 008!!!

It would probably take me a couple of weeks to make a bag full of that many tiles with the correct rhythms written on them and I’m not inclined to do it. And I’m still not sure about the weighting. There may need to be exponentially more instances of 2 eighth notes. I’m sure of my melody and interval charts but my current rhythm chart is just an approximation. It was difficult to understand the data because it was recorded in seconds and milliseconds not in eighths, dotted eighths, eighth note triplets etc...

Anyway, the goal is to get to the gems faster, not wade through tons of crap. So, how to focus the search for viable rhythms? Of course one way is to use the existing melodic rhythms from songs we already like. But thats not in the spirit of what I’ve been trying to do here.

There is a similar issue with the interval method. Right now there is only the possibility of having 4 major thirds and 5 minor thirds. Having more than that is within the realm of possibility so the number of tiles may have to be doubled/tripled etc... in order to create that ability.

I just realized that I’ve been miscalculating the number of basic rhythms. It’s closer to 127 basic cells. Now its looking like there are over 186, 000 possible rhythm combinations over 8 beats in 2 measures.

Also, the reason the scholarly journal article measures the rhythms in seconds is because when looking at the sheet music, some common rhythm cells are tied to previous and/or subsequent cells. The cells that tie over cannot even be ranked because you would have to know the cell that it ties to in order to determine if the tied note was short or long. Since it can tie to anything, it cannot be determined how it ranks.

I was able to find some useful information about the frequency of stress patterns in English lyrics. First off, short words are more common than longer words.

There are 995 words that have two syllables where the second syllable is stressed and occur 24, 558 times out of a million words and have a weighted frequency of 19.98%. This is the most frequent stress pattern.

There are 3, 624 words that have two syllables where the first syllable is stressed and occur 67, 693 times out of a million words and have a weighted frequency of 18.08.

These first two are by far the most frequent.

2, 619 words account for three syllables with the stress falling on the first beat and occur 24, 558 times out of a million and have a weight of 9.38.

A three syllable word with the second syllable accented occurs 15, 278 times out of a million words and has a weighted frequency of 10.12. This is the third most common stress pattern.

All of the rest of the words have much fewer instances.

A three syllable word with the third syllable accented occurs only 1, 398 times and has a weighted frequency of 3.79.

A four syllable word with the first syllable accented occurs only 3, 549 times out of a million and has a frequency of 7.14.

A four syllable word with the second syllable stressed occurs 9, 014 times and has a weighted frequency of 6.77. (This is the ONLY kind of word longer than three syllables that occurs in Mariah Carey’s 1 hits. That word is eMOtional. I guess it better be important.)

A four syllable word with stress on the third syllable occurs 6, 831 times and is weighted at 6.72.

A four syllable word with stress on the fourth beat occurs 97 times out of a million words. NOT MUCH!!! and is weighted at 2.62.

Five syllable words aren’t even in the ballpark.

Other useful information is that 90% of all content words such as nouns and pronouns (not verbs, adjectives or adverbs) begin with stressed syllables. A greater frequency of verbs have the second aka last syllable stressed.

I put some new items up on myspace within pics in the folder called Music Composition at http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cf....albumId=1823777

Of course you have to log in first to see them.

It's got the basic rhythm cells from my journal along with the rhythm schemes (called the Scheme Pool on my Music Composition Flow Chart which is also there).

There is also a chart of the first and second measure's possible rhythm schemes where you would plug in the basic cells. There is a second chart for the the placement of anacrussis rhythms in a "second measure".

The thing to look at on my current composition flow chart is how the notes branch on the staff under the "Interval Series" heading. Notice how paths are chosen based on their weight aka predominance of pitches 1,5,3etc...

One of the things I came up with was to use a fit melody as guide tones for subsequent composition. But even after all this work, expert systems are still supposed to be better. That's where you input a melody and perform continuing transformations on it to come up with new material. That's in the lower right hand corner of my Music Composition Flow Chart but just roughed in. There wasn't enough space.

The chart I used a while back which shows simultaneous Top-Down and Bottom-Up decisions is there also as well as rhythms for half of all my favorite drum kit, bass, keyboard and guitar rhythms, as well as a chart of Middle Eastern, Latin, Afro-Cuban and Indonesian hand drum rhythms.

Something for everyone.

Good lord...

Care to post an abridged version?

Seconded.

Interesting....

You mentioned that you did a map of according to the English language...

So I take it that this presentation is a look at occurrences in Western/American music and specifically the English language or perhaps American English only?

I may have a few more questions but I am going to reread your presentation again.

Writing Memo 101:

Within the first few sentences you must tell me why I should care. Once you tell me, I will decide if I want to read it or not. If you don't tell me, I'll automatically say "no thank you."

Organization helps.

People do not read every word, give me headings and I can pick and choose which parts appeal to me.

You can ignore all the above and write a small portion of your thoughts out and then extend the thoughts out by communication and directing your audience.

P.s. Be aware of your audience. Most people on forums are not professions interested in spending hours upon hours reading long post. Write towards the young composer audience. Key word is young. This implies impatient.

Adults are more impatient and with less time due to things that keep them busy.

I have no read it all but of what I read I still feel lost. :blink: Later when I get time I will read it all.

He's just mapping out a type of serial system. I've done it myself plenty of times.

Particularly fun was creating a serial system from Morse Code and then writing music based on sentences. Best thing is it comes with random rhythms built right into the system.

I'm just letting you know I didn't read your post.

Within the first few sentences you must tell me why I should care.

Now that's one important writing skill...

I know! Sn introduction should include

• Why you are writing
  
• Why I should read this
  
• What you plan to write about
  

Another important point:

Pictures of raccoons.

:>

After studying patterns of female and male communication, linguists say that women on the net post short things and apologize for the length. Men will post insanely long diatribes and not apologize at all. Another thing they say is that people with greater intelligence also make longer posts. :D :D :D

Yes, it's good to tell people why they should listen to your music too. I thought the title would help with that. If you're interested in how music and language are related or in pitch and interval frequencies then read it. If you're not intelligent enough to maintain your concentration long enough to read or understand the title then no one can help you.

There's a lot of stuff I'm intelligent enough to read, but I still have to make a conscious choice about whether I will spend my time (which is less than infinite, unfortunately) on it. In a case like this, on an internet forum where nobody has an obligation to read anything, and where nobody knows who you are or whether you're likely to be up to anything interesting, it's very much your responsibility, not mine, to convince me to make that choice in your favor. Your last post demonstrates quite articulately that you refuse to fulfill that duty, or even to acknowledge that you ought to, considering the nature of this medium, and that it is you, not we, who are failing to communicate.

I apologize for the length.

After studying patterns of female and male communication, linguists say that women on the net post short things and apologize for the length. Men will post insanely long diatribes and not apologize at all. Another thing they say is that people with greater intelligence also make longer posts. :D :D :D

Yes, it's good to tell people why they should listen to your music too. I thought the title would help with that. If you're interested in how music and language are related or in pitch and interval frequencies then read it. If you're not intelligent enough to maintain your concentration long enough to read or understand the title then no one can help you.

Is this your answer for all posts including mine? Depending on your answer I would be interested in rereading your presentation all the more and engaging in discussion...

Or did you just make this post to show off your graph and boast?

And I hope your not so intelligent that you don't understand the power of concise and clear communication for the benefit of an engaging discourse. That is, if you were truly interested in sharing this material and having a good discussion regarding your efforts.

"Get up stand up. Stand up for your right. Get up stand up. Don

After studying patterns of female and male communication, linguists say that women on the net post short things and apologize for the length. Men will post insanely long diatribes and not apologize at all. Another thing they say is that people with greater intelligence also make longer posts. :D :D :D

Yes, it's good to tell people why they should listen to your music too. I thought the title would help with that. If you're interested in how music and language are related or in pitch and interval frequencies then read it. If you're not intelligent enough to maintain your concentration long enough to read or understand the title then no one can help you.

It isn't an issue about intelligence, it's an issue of necessity.

Your title gives us no real direction. We may have a general feel for your idea (we don't) but we don't know where you plan to head with your idea. That is why writing a paragraph or even a sentence forecasting your writing would beneficial.

The simple fact is that intelligent people can become bored with poorly designed writing. Rarely anyone reads word by word, people like to scan the pages and find the relevant points and read that.

If your writing was simply wonderful and the topic was an interest of me (and it is but your writing isn't) I might be inclined to read word for word your little post here.

Instead of replying with aggressive remarks, condense your writing and get to the point more quickly.

As a side note, I managed to read all of this during my lunch break. At the end, I thought to myself, what's the point?

Judging by my post length I guess I'm dumb

wow people, this isn't a freaking open market and the initial post wasn't a sales pitch.

If you didn't read it, good for you. Get over yourselves.

P.S. Jubilee - This is the internet. Nothing has a point. Ever.

wow people, this isn't a freaking open market and the initial post wasn't a sales pitch.

If you didn't read it, good for you. Get over yourselves.

P.S. Jubilee - This is the internet. Nothing has a point. Ever.

It isn't about selling or buying. It's about clear communication.

Yes, even on the internet there can be a point. The purpose of a forum is to discuss, and for discussions to take place, clear communication must occur. Failure to clearly communicate purpose is our lost. I believe people can learn from each other and I think I can learn from his topic, but I found it so hard to read. I am just expressing my desire for the author to write more clearly and giving him or her ways to do so.

You need to advance your knowledge of group theory before much of this begins to make sense. Some groups you consider are rather monotonic and thusly the results you "derived" are trivial.

Update: That's to be expected. You relate and mistook a concept to be one thing when in reality should've been something else. I suggest focusing on the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) rather than the actually letter. There exist a better and more pronounced relationship between the sounds we make using language and music itself. I think that is what "scientist" mostly were referring to.

Judging by my post length I guess I'm dumb

Actually, that's judging by your post quality.

Oh snap!

Just kidding.

Ooo. IPA. When did you learn about that?

After studying patterns of female and male communication, linguists say that women on the net post short things and apologize for the length. Men will post insanely long diatribes and not apologize at all. Another thing they say is that people with greater intelligence also make longer posts.

Logical fallacy, ad hoc - if intelligent men write longer posts, then writing longer posts won't necessarily mean you're an intelligent man.

Generally, your attitude is a bit arrogant, as if you are the only intelligent and bright enough person who can claim the understanding and revelation of the secrets between language and music. But I bet you haven't heard of Diana Deutsch, who has got a few more degrees behind her name and has done a number of in-depth studies in aural perception (and illusions), language and music, perfect pitch etc. And guess what: she's not the only one either!

So I'd much rather spend my time and energy reading something by her, than something by you, especially when you have such an arrogant behaviour.

Argue argue bicker bicker. That's some really interesting stuff in that post up there and that's all you guys can do is bicker over hardly-related nonsense. It is going nowhere.

So has everybody ever tried this with a language other than English?

Like I stated before, it isn't language relevant. You'll find trivial cases and that is it. You have to use IPA if you expect any reasonable interesting findings.