Dissonance

So it seems like dissonance is the way to write something professional these days. I mean pop artist don't play with it the same way as other composers. Like Wittikar(how do you spell that name?). I mean he likes dissonance a lot, and it sounds awesome. It seems like composers are leaning towards that more and more, is it just the latest style or what? There are quite a few compositions on this site that follow this trend, so I was wondering what you fellow musicians thought of it.

Also, it seems compositions keep getting more and more dissonant. More min2 and maj7 everywhere. Everything has to be close in pitch or something. Sometimes I just think there needs to be a break. If I were writing a piece that were that dissonant, I would at least have an "eye of the storm" or something. Is there such a thing as too much dissonance these days?

First of all it Eric Whitacre, and yes he does use a lot of dissonance. What I kinda see is this, we are coming out of atonal music and so obviously dissonance is a fun tool some composers like to use. I dont think its "required" but it does open a whole door of fun new tricks for us to play with.

Actually, Whitacre is quite conservative in his use of dissonance compared to many other contemporary composers. Check out the opening chords of pieces like Macmillan's Veni, Veni Emmanuel or A Scotch Bestiary; they're basically a wall of sound with what sounds like almost every note in the scale in the chord. Similarly Rautavaara will harmonise a melody using consecutive minor seconds and fourths. (Macmillan is, by the way, quite a melodic composer, probably one of the best alive today, but even when writing a melody he still uses dissonance in the accompaniment). I think that the limitation of dissonance to mostly 'white notes' is, as tenor10 said, a reaction against the extremes of the atonal style. Personally, I don't have much of a problem with using 'nasty' or 'crunchy' chords (stack of minor seconds, that sort of thing) in my music if there's good reason to; I try to write music which has a key centre but without the rules of tonal harmony. Without being provocative, most people here seem to have quite conservative tastes when it comes to harmony. Or perhaps that's just the trend in modern music?

So it seems like dissonance is the way to write something professional these days. I mean pop artist don't play with it the same way as other composers. Like Wittikar(how do you spell that name?). I mean he likes dissonance a lot, and it sounds awesome. It seems like composers are leaning towards that more and more, is it just the latest style or what? There are quite a few compositions on this site that follow this trend, so I was wondering what you fellow musicians thought of it.

Also, it seems compositions keep getting more and more dissonant. More min2 and maj7 everywhere. Everything has to be close in pitch or something. Sometimes I just think there needs to be a break. If I were writing a piece that were that dissonant, I would at least have an "eye of the storm" or something. Is there such a thing as too much dissonance these days?

These days? You... You're aware that atonal music is from the early 1900s? Dissonance has been a musical element since god know when, and Mozart himself tended towards dissonance in his late pieces (Bach LOVED dissonance and chromatics..)

It's just a tendency towards an equality of dissonances and consonances. Plus, to have a dissonance you need to have actual intervals. What happens when you have clusters, or dissonances that span multiple registers. It's all very relative.

There's no such a thing as "too much" of anything, musically speaking. Look at Penderecki's threnody, which is from the 60s. It's entirely "dissonant" if you want to call it that, but it's working with different parameters so that calling it dissonant is sort of inaccurate. There's then the minimalist dudes that push the repetition way past "too much" into "oh wow."

It's less in how much of an element you have, and more in how you use it that makes a difference.

Research some 20th century history, listen to more contemporary music.

PS: What about the music concrete guys? A door creaking isn't even producing proper "tones" to be dissonant or consonant to begin with... There's obviously a whole lot of things that go way beyond simple terminology like that these days.

Well said SSC. Almost all contemporary music is brushed aside without anybody listening to it, because they're afraid of the 'nasty' harmonies. There's some really interesting things going on right now, as composers find new ways to combine tonality and atonality. I hate using the phrase 'be more open-minded' as it's often used to mean 'agree with me or you're narrow-minded', but it certainly applies here.

Without dissonance, there is no consonance.

Personally, I can't understand people who are so tastes are so childish and finicky that they freak out when exposed to anything outside of musical baby food.

Yeah, it's really not a "modern trend," it's just Whitacre has become sort of a rockstar of choral music and his dissonances have been seen as sort of "revolutionary" because of it. But there's a crazy amount out there, and "dissonance" is just the tip of the iceberg - I mean people are writing sonatas with pencils, tabletops, couch cushions, etc. so a little minor 2nd here and there is sort of inconsequential when it comes to characterizing modern music.

I suppose it's prone to overuse, but then again, it depends on what you're trying to do.

...I mean people are writing sonatas with pencils...

Not to piss of the bonfire here, but I tend to write all of my music with pencils :whistling:

What I kinda see is this, we are coming out of atonal music and so obviously dissonance is a fun tool some composers like to use. I dont think its "required" but it does open a whole door of fun new tricks for us to play with.

So we are moving out of an atonal music phase, and moving into a less dissonant phase? Has there been a trend like a wave or has it so far just gone from harmonic, to atonal, and back (assuming we are in a coming back stage) over and over again? The extremes may vary, and technology obviously had influence on this, but is the trend there?

These days? You... You're aware that atonal music is from the early 1900s? Dissonance has been a musical element since god know when, and Mozart himself tended towards dissonance in his late pieces (Bach LOVED dissonance and chromatics..)

Yes of course famous composers of the past used dissonance. Music would be completely boring if it was completely harmonic. Not much variation there. I understand that, it's just that it still seems to be more common as time goes on.

I hate using the phrase 'be more open-minded' as it's often used to mean 'agree with me or you're narrow-minded', but it certainly applies here.

Let's make this clear, I like dissonant music. I think it's cool. Especially in the right situations. I don't like it as much for background, but when just listening, I like it. But there are times when I don't think it makes sense, which is why I think I like Whitacre's more conservative dissonance compared to the walls. And I don't see why I'm being attacked for it.

Actually, Whitacre is quite conservative in his use of dissonance compared to many other contemporary composers.

First of all it Eric Whitacre,

Sorry I didn't know how to spell Whitacre. I like his music, just couldn't remember how to spell his name.

... Well, no. There's no "phase" right now. There's EVERYTHING right now. There's as many people writing tonal pieces as people writing mix-up, crossovers, pluralistic, concrete, ETC ETC ETC. All sorts of techniques and styles.

There's no "trend" anymore, there's everything. You can do whatever you want, and everyone does whatever they want.

There's no "trend" anymore, there's everything. You can do whatever you want, and everyone does whatever they want.

not according to Gianluca :P

Not to piss of the bonfire here, but I tend to write all of my music with pencils :whistling:

with pencil PARTS...as in first and second pencil

I thought the first pencil was a little too flat, definitely needed to take some wood off. Now the third pencil, his tone was too leaden.

I think Corbin may have been reminded of me when enunciating that comment. :happy:

"There's no "trend" anymore, there's everything. You can do whatever you want, and everyone does whatever they want."

I stand by this myself, and in fact I have my own view. It seems to me that composers nowadays are one of two things: ones insisting on pressing forward, going with the flow, and creating newer and newer sounding music, and of course ones that really don't care about what the current "trend" really is. I wouldn't be surprised to find some serious choral or instrumental composers working in even the baroque style. But also, there are people who are still doing atonalism, serialism, romantic era goodness, and classical. Two roads, it appears. One says "write new music." and the other says "Just write whatever floats your boat."

Without dissonance, there is no consonance.

...freak out when exposed to anything outside of musical baby food.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :laugh:

Too true...... pFFFFFFFBWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! ...musical...baby....food!! :laugh:

*ahem*

Um....yes.

Thanks Flint for that gem.

Yes I think flint has made one of the best quotes in YC history.

I write what I likes...

I like what I writes...

A little of this and a touch of that and could care less what it is called, nor what era it comes from.

I like music

I like babies

I like food

Does that mean I like musical baby food?

my .02

Ron

I think of it as write what you want, only after you've looked at everything and taken in a lot.

Otherwise, it should be.. my music is worth scraggy right now.

Does that mean someone who hasn't listened to much music can't write good music? I'm sure as a person becomes more aware of what's going on in the musical world can write better. But that doesn't mean that person can't write a good piece of music. Someone had to start this whole thing off in the beginning. I think a person should look at their music and say, "I could probably make this better, but I deal with it right now." People can go back to their pieces and change it to fit how they think it should at the time. I'm pretty sure if anyone here who has composed a piece could improve a piece they wrote a while ago. Whether it's worth the trouble or not is someone's opinion.

I thought the first pencil was a little too flat, definitely needed to take some wood off. Now the third pencil, his tone was too leaden.

What's the difference between first chair pencil and last chair pencil?

About two and a half measures!

(Yes? No? Originally heard that one as a viola joke... maybe it's funnier as a viola joke......)