"Dark" Languages

Hi,

I am about to compose my first piece (or at least attempt to compose it..) and what I have in mind is something dark.

It's in a minor key and it needs to sound well, like Halloween. I went to Holiday World yesterday and I heard this one choral song and now I sorta made up my own and I can't get it outta my head, I just need a language to put it to that sounds really dark and evil.

any ideas?

thanks,

-Mathieu

In my opinion if you pick a dark text and set it right you can get this "dark sound"

I wouldnt say that there is one language that is just dark. A lot of people think german is ugly, but when sung i think german is a beautiful.

Instead of focusing on a dark language you should be focusing on what text you want to use.

Does this help?

Welcome to YC!

Scott.

By language i assume you mean 'tongues' as opposed to vocabulary? i know its hardly choral work but rammstein sing in german and it sounds quite dark, i think a harsh tongue like that would be best. Despite that tenor is right - any language can be beautiful or dark when sung well with the correct vocab.

Hope that helps :S

ferret,

If all you care about is that it "sounds" dark and evil, then make up words that sound dark and evil to you and set your piece to them. It's not really relevant what they're saying if all you care about is the sound. Rolled R's are cool, and a large male section of singers will enhance that dark effect.

If all you care about is that it "sounds" dark and evil, then make up words that sound dark and evil to you and set your piece to them. It's not really relevant what they're saying if all you care about is the sound. Rolled R's are cool, and a large male section of singers will enhance that dark effect.

Yeah like some of the stuff from the lord of the rings

Okay, thanks :)

I know that John Williams used Sanskrit for the Phantom Menace song in star wars, but Like Tenor said any toungue would be able to sound dark. I guess I never realized that.

:) I feel good!

Swahili.

:D

Yeah like some of the stuff from the lord of the rings

which was not "made up" but rather were quotations in Tolkiens's own synthetic languages. MOST of the languages Tolkien devised for LotR are complete enough to express relatively basic ideas in a coherant fashion. Some of the languages are nearly complete enough to function in a day-to-day fashion. While a few are fragmentary at best. However, it's not the sort of thing I would call "made up sounds". There's a lot more to it than that.

Any language can sound dark.

I think it is the way the language is used that adds to the darkness, as well as who sings it. Check out various requiems for some dark and brooding. However, those are in Latin. But you would get an idea.

Try working on a particular minor key too. I feel that different minor keys give off different auras of evilness.

Latin has the advantage that, while unlike nonsense it actually means stuff, it's nobody's native language. If you use Portuguese or whatever because it sounds cool and exotic to you, it won't to a Portuguese guy. But Latin is like that to everyone. Artificial languages (including Tolkien's) have the same advantage, but raise more eyebrows.

If you intend to put together some Latin of your own, though, make sure to run it through someone who understands the language (unless you do), because to someone who does, there's nothing worse than a bunch of Latin words from a dictionary strung together. Same with Quenya or something, except hardly anybody will notice...

Latin has the advantage that, while unlike nonsense it actually means stuff, it's nobody's native language. If you use Portuguese or whatever because it sounds cool and exotic to you, it won't to a Portuguese guy. But Latin is like that to everyone. Artificial languages (including Tolkien's) have the same advantage, but raise more eyebrows.

If you intend to put together some Latin of your own, though, make sure to run it through someone who understands the language (unless you do), because to someone who does, there's nothing worse than a bunch of Latin words from a dictionary strung together. Same with Quenya or something, except hardly anybody will notice...

He does have a point. somethign you could look into would be making a language of your own. Alot of extra time, but interesting none the less. IT doens thave to be a fully functionign language either. Esperanto might be a good choice too. Easy to find some one to check over your work. Though this will me there are more semi familiar words. SO this could be a bad thign.

I finally started the piece.. I just think I'll use gibberish, after all I never thought about using a language sounding cool to me but to a native it sounds stupid/it could sound happy..

With the way I'll be using the drone chords it would be something like "Moo-ah-be-Mesh-Kou-ah-be"

Old English. It sounds Dark, no one speaks it.

F

Oooooo never thought of Anglo-Saxon (old english)

I have Beowulf upstairs and it's a Bilingual translation, the left page has the original Old English text and the right side has it in modern language.

I really don't know the purpose of knowing what Beowulf was in Old English, but at least I could find some words from there.

even though I did already type up most of my song's words in my gibberish language..

Anglo Saxon is a killer idea actually.

Maybe you can yous Hopelandic.

Vonlenska - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though. Idt there is an actual guide and its all gibberish ne way.

Though. Idt there is an actual guide and its all gibberish ne way.

gibberish.. like "Idt" and "ne"?

A word of warning: using "leet speak" like "ne" for "any" is frowned upon on this forum. It will probably result in an eventual infraction point for you. So I'd suggest cleaning it up :)

Actually I slightly misread the original post! nvm... I mean never mind! :D I think Latin or Anglo Saxon is a good direction and I'm anxious to hear the result. Good luck!

Actually I slightly misread the original post! nvm... I mean never mind! :D I think Latin or Anglo Saxon is a good direction and I'm anxious to hear the result. Good luck!

thanks.

I will have to experiment around (like someone told me in my first thread on these forums) with a few things, like should the drone be a single note, or a chord or notes? I have the first 4 Verses/Choruses and I'm debating adding more.

If anyone has ever played Samus 3: Corruption then there is a song on there that sounds a bit like what I want to write... I'm just debating weather to make the drone like the one on the game or like one I had originally planned.. the one on the game sounds a lot cooler because it's not just straight eighth notes, it's like dotted eight-sixteenth notes.

The other things I'll experiment with is languages, I have my first 4 verses written in my own "gibberish" language, but it makes sense.. to me anyway, and it repeats a lot of the same words so it's like an actual language.

EDIT: If you are curious to see the lyrics I have uploaded them..

Exile.pdf

gibberish.. like "Idt" and "ne"?

A word of warning: using "leet speak" like "ne" for "any" is frowned upon on this forum. It will probably result in an eventual infraction point for you. So I'd suggest cleaning it up :)

Ok, my bad. I don't mean to abbreviate. I will clean up my act. I am just so used to it from talking in AIM and I realize that it has really effected my writing.

Though i do believe that "leet speak" is more like.

1 H4T3 L33T S34K

Though, thats just me.

On the topic of simplified english. You should look into Newspeak it might not be good for this, but it has sort of a creepy inhuman quality about it.

I just finished what I have, though I'm not posting it...

I wrote it all down at the piano and then wrote it again on Rosegarden on my computer, but for some reason it wouldn't let me hear the playback, it did for about 5 notes then it just stopped.. so.. I have no real idea how it sounds... aw well, I'll just email it to my laptop and play it on there in the morning.

anyway, ima just stick to my gibberish for now, which i've named "Schazhosch" because one of the words is something like that..

And note360:

lol your shorthand from AIM.. I played Runescape and did AIM for so long with shorthand that I started writing essay's in school using 'r u 2 g2g brb' etc.. so then I vowed to never use shorthand... now I have the fastest typing in my school at 126 WPM :D

back on subject..

I'm like experimenting! The song is VERY repatative from the standpoint that you basically sing the same two mesures 4 times (because the words change) for each verse, and I had it originally to where verse 2 and verse 4 where the SAME, just different octaves..

SO. I experimented around and now I got verse 4 sounding SO MUCH COOLER and not repetitive AT ALL. So thanks to the guy who said experiment with stuff.

Also the drone is better, it's not straight eighth notes anymore.

The song sits at just over 4 minutes, I'm wondering if I should add one or two more verses to lengthen it out a little, but I know for sure I will be adding some soprano voices to intertwine with everything that is going on to hopefully loosen up it's repetitive-ness.

Don't get your hopes up thought for a great amazing wonderful song.. it's my first time actually trying to compose something, so.. yeah.. it'll probably be boring/bad/not what some people are expecting..

I'll muse a bit on the concept of using "made-up" vocal sounds in a piece of music, and the practical considerations for notating it, hopefully to somebody's benefit.

When trying to convey sounds of this kind through a score, it is absolutely necessary that your orthography is consistent and unambiguous; it is also highly desirable that it's efficient (there's one dedicated and unambiguous symbol or string of symbols for each phoneme), and it is helpful if it's familiar to prospective readers (like IPA, or a well-constructed derivative of a known language's writing system). If it is not perfectly familiar (in the sense that the exact realization is clear to any reader--even if it requires going to the library for a minute, like IPA to most people), you absolutely must explain what every symbol means, and any other peculiarities necessary to realize your score. Take some time to think about these points.

Make sure that, in the process of writing, you are conceiving of the sounds first, and then finding the most effective way of transcribing it into writing. Do not fall for the temptation to make up written words that look cool, but leave you doubting as to their exact pronunciation. Keep in mind that the writing is only there to tell the performer what, exactly, his oral cavity should be doing. Any emotional or associative meaning should come from the sound itself, not the look of your score.

The above is quite general, but having looked at your text, I have some specifics as well:

1. First and foremost, it's not nearly familiar enough (to use my ad hoc terminology from above) not to require a legend. If you like, I can further elaborate on all the seeming inconsistencies, ambiguities or unfamiliarities I see, but that can wait for now, and in the remaining points I'll stick to a couple of obvious ones. If you provide a more detailed explanation, I could comment it.

2. You use the r with caron (ř) quite a bit. Now, this is letter that AFAIK only occurs in Czech, and represents a sound (some sort of cross between a fricative and a trill that I genuinely don't understand as of yet) that also occurs pretty much only in Czech. Is that the sound you intend? It seems to be leaps and bounds away from everything else as far as ease of pronunciation goes, in that case.

3. You use multiple letters quite a bit (from two to nearly fifteen). My guess is that it represents in writing the rhythms you intend... is it going to look like that in the score? If not, it's hard to see from your current text which doublings (and more) mean something and which don't.

4. There's an asterisk in there. Mistake?

The above is quite general, but having looked at your text, I have some specifics as well:

1. First and foremost, it's not nearly familiar enough (to use my ad hoc terminology from above) not to require a legend. If you like, I can further elaborate on all the seeming inconsistencies, ambiguities or unfamiliarities I see, but that can wait for now, and in the remaining points I'll stick to a couple of obvious ones. If you provide a more detailed explanation, I could comment it.

2. You use the r with caron (ř) quite a bit. Now, this is letter that AFAIK only occurs in Czech, and represents a sound (some sort of cross between a fricative and a trill that I genuinely don't understand as of yet) that also occurs pretty much only in Czech. Is that the sound you intend? It seems to be leaps and bounds away from everything else as far as ease of pronunciation goes, in that case.

3. You use multiple letters quite a bit (from two to nearly fifteen). My guess is that it represents in writing the rhythms you intend... is it going to look like that in the score? If not, it's hard to see from your current text which doublings (and more) mean something and which don't.

4. There's an asterisk in there. Mistake?

thanks for pointing all that out.

1. I totally forgot to put a legend down at the bottom, the asterisk I stuck in there to help me remember (but I totally forgot to put it in there anyway!)

2. The 'R' with the Caron to me represented a rolled R sound, I was going to put that in the legend.

3. The multiple letters just helped remind me where to put the longer notes, it means absolutley nothing and in the score it's just single letters.

*HOWEVER* I DID put a few double letters (e.g. aa and ii) which gives a different sound, also to be put int he legend.

4. The asterisk was there to help me remember that a) I need to put a legend and b) the word "ske" which the asterisk was beside I wanted to sound more like "ska" or a "skae" sound.

thanks for pointing all that out!

you can hear what I so far have here but it's not that great.. sorry if I disappoint.