Questions regarding string writing/orchestration

Firstly, I'd like to apoligise if any of the questions I pose have been answered to death already, but I as I have some very specific questions this is probably the best place to post!

Also please forgive me if my questions seem obvious; I have not been given orchestration lessons so please just bear with me!

1. Is it acceptable to split the basses into two group (divisi), one playing pizzicato, the other arco.

2. (seems like an obvious one but I want to double check) Can double basses play octave intervals with ease? (octaves at the same time eg, C1 and C2)

3. If I split for example, the 1st violins into two melodies (divisi) how would I indicate separate dynamics? Eg, one melody to be played at F, the other at MF. Would I need to assign two staves to the 1st violins?

I think these are all the questions I have for now. If anyone is interested this is in preparation for scoring a string serenade I just completed. It's quite important I get the scoring to be as accurate as can be, as I shall be submitting it for application to a conservatory/university.

Thanks in advance... :D

1. Is it acceptable to split the basses into two group (divisi), one playing pizzicato, the other arco.

2. (seems like an obvious one but I want to double check) Can double basses play octave intervals with ease? (octaves at the same time eg, C1 and C2)

3. If I split for example, the 1st violins into two melodies (divisi) how would I indicate separate dynamics? Eg, one melody to be played at F, the other at MF. Would I need to assign two staves to the 1st violins?

1. yes if your group is large enough. remember that the contrabass does not carry the same way a cello does. so if you divide your contrabasses, they lose a great deal of carrying power.

2. no. no. no and no. contrabasses are not built for playing doublestops. unless it is an open string.

3. seperate dynamics require separate staves. I don't recommend it, however. particularly f and mf... which is a bit silly, to be quite honest. if you want one line coming out more, write the same dynamic and write "solo" or "espr." or something for that section. orchestrate in such a manner that your "important" material gets the attention it deserves because of how it is written. Not because you changed a dynamic marking.

For contrabasses you can assume as a rule of thumb that they can stop a third at most (probably a major third, although it depends on the player's hands, and of course on the register). Anything that requires a wider stop is simply too far away. Of course QcC has already said that using doublestops on basses (at least in the orchestra) is not advisable (intonation is already hard enough without them anyways), but an octave would be too wide anyways, since the strings are a fourth apart, so you'd need to stop a fifth, unless one string is an open string. This also applies to harmonics: Natural harmonics are fine and sound great on contrabasses, but artificial fourth/fifth harmonics are simply too far away, except in a high position.

Hello, first time posting. I've been lurking around here for a while and have learned a lot. This might be one of the first times I might have something useful to say. :)

I am a bass player. As far as double stops go I feel that fifths are the easiest to do, followed by minor thirds and then major. They all are a little hard to do in the lower register (half and first position). They are pretty easy around the third and fourth position but are a real pain around where the neck meets the body up till thumb position (around the B nat. on the D string until past the harmonic). Once you get up to thumb position minor sixths are fairly easy and depending on the players hand size you might be able to write up to a seventh, although I wouldn't recommend it. Octaves are pretty much out of the question unless they involve the open strings (low E,A,D,G) and you can have the basses tune down to a low D on the E string to get a few more notes, just be careful how you would write anything else that would involve the lower strings just to avoid confusion.

As far as splitting the bass, that happens a lot. I have played a fair amount of pieces that split the bass section, half arco half pizz. I can't remember the piece but I played in one that had the basses divided into three parts and if I remember correctly the end of one of the movements of Dvoř

Hi, thank you very much for your incredibly helpful replies!

if you want one line coming out more, write the same dynamic and write "solo" or "espr." or something for that section. orchestrate in such a manner that your "important" material gets the attention it deserves because of how it is written. Not because you changed a dynamic marking.

Cheers for that, very useful. In the midi 'mockup' I didn't use seperate dynamics and it actually works well, but I wasn't sure if it would 'translate' properly to a real orchestra.

Octaves are pretty much out of the question unless they involve the open strings (low E,A,D,G)

Right. In the recap of main thematic idea, I wrote the basses to be split into two groups. One playing octaves (now obviously this won't do!) and the other playing pizzicato. My inevitable question is therefore, would it be advisable to split the double bass into three groups thus : One playing arco, A for example; the other playing arco, low A (to create the octaves); the other playing pizzicato. If you want I can upload the excerpt of music that I am referring to, to give you some idea of context. If however the answer is an emphatic no, then please tell me immediately!

I think you've all managed to answer my questions and I can get on with scoring the piece now (except perhaps the bit I mention above). But just as a warning, I may return at any given point with - yes you guessed it - more questions.. Thank you for your time and patience!

I think Stravinsky does this at the beginning of The Firebird. That is to say he divides the basses having half play pizz and half arco. Of course they are playing the same notes/rhythms but the effect is nice. This isn't quite the same application your proposing, but the general idea has precedent.

Steve Winkler