Is it wrong to compose and not being able to play it?

I play guitar and piano, at least I say I do but I don't really. I was never taught and I never really push my self. I'm pretty much beginner/intermediate for last 5 years or so now.

I then discovered composition through tools such as notation programs, more spcifically Finale and Guitar Pro.

I have written a few songs I am very happy with. However, no way would I be able to have composed these with a guitar or piano. Im limited by what my hands can do. Finale and Guitar Pro give me the opportunity to experiment more and really think about harmony.

Is this wrong?

I think I could play about 1% of what I've written... so I hope not! :P

Well, how many opera composers are able to sing all the roles they write?

Not to mention being able to play all the instruments in an orchestra generally means having to have those instruments. That scraggy's expensive son.

I don't think it is. I do however believe that if you could play it that it might give it more meaning to you as a composer than anything else. I'm able to play some of what I write but not all of it because I don't know how to play that many instruments.

Well, how many opera composers are able to sing all the roles they write?

Not to mention being able to play all the instruments in an orchestra...

Bingo!!!

I can't play drums to save my life...nor many of the other instruments I write for every day.

Still trying to sing 4 choral parts simultaneously...

Seriously, there are things you simply cannot do by yourself.

Not to mention being able to play all the instruments in an orchestra generally means having to have those instruments. That scraggy's expensive son.

To.

My.

World.

Of course it's not wrong! I once heard an interview with an accomplished composer who said he knew he had composed something too difficult if one of the members of the orchestra came up to him before a rehearsal/performance with a scowl on his face. You don't have to master an instrument to compose for it (ideally you will have some musical experience with at least one instrument, though).

A lot of contemporary composers can't even play ANY instruments.

How true. lol.

I wouldn't want to get stuck on Finale as a crutch, (I highly support paper writing) but yes it lets you hear music you couldn't hear by playing it yourself, and writing something you can't play is not bad. I felt the same way when I wrote clarinet music that I was no good at playing. Stravinsky wrote fantastically hard music for wind instruments, and he played piano.

Yeah... basically I just agree with everyone else. :-P

The important point is that you write what you hear not what you can play.

You don't have to be able to play the instruments yourself, but you HAVE to know their limitations. A pianist is likely to write a chord for guitar or violin or 'cello that simply cannot be done if he is not familiar with the limitations of the instruments. Learn the limits. If you play piano and you write something you cannot play, try playing it harder. Slowly. If you can do that at least, you know it is possible and a REAL pianist can pick up from there and play it up to tempo. If you haven't the slightest bit of an idea on how wind instruments are played, get a book on orchestration at the very least. Make friends with people that play the ruddy things... something. Anything. You may not be aware that a Bb to Db trill across the "break" is near impossible on a clarinet because you don't play it, but at least you can learn these kinds of limits so you aren't orchestrating minefields for yourself and your performers.

I used to feel the same way.

I originally played classical guitar. I also have some crude abilities on mandolin and banjo. In fact, I wrote a guitar'banjo duet in which I could play both pieces. In fact, I actually wrote the piece with instruments in hand. So there would be no doubt that I could play them. Here's the result of that little comp.

Repykulous

About three years ago I decided to learn more instruments, so I got a piano, a violin, a viola, a flute, a clarinet, and a trumpet. I also bought some bongos and conga drums to get some idea of percussion.

I have learned to play scales and simple melodies on all of these instruments. I don't claim to be able to "play" any of them. None the less they have given me a feel for what its like to play the various instruments.

I wrote a guitar/flute duet. Again with instruments in hand, so I know I can play both parts. And if I can play the flute to this piece then I can be absolutely certain that any real flutist would be easily able to perform it.

Flute and Guitar Fantasy

I've also done some other pieces with flute/clarinet and piano/violin. Again, I could play all the parts, but in some cases not as fluently as I would like.

I would actually like to have a cello too. ;)

And an oboe!

In fact, I'd basically love to have one of just about every kind of instrument made. (ha ha)

But alas time, money, and in my case; energy, are not infinite.

I still like to compose with instruments I can play, but I use cello in compositions often and I definitely can't play a cello. In fact, I've never even touched a cello. I really should get one, even if it's just a $100 wonder. Actually a $100 cello is a great deal considering strings cost almost $25 each! I really need to bite the bullet and get a cello in here even if it's just for fun.

But no, composers don't need to be able to play what they write. I just like to write what I can play for the most part. ;)

And I do find that improvising on an instrument is the best way to write for it. Once you've learned a few scales you can almost always learn a few note runs here and there.

For me the two most difficult instruments to learn where the violin and piano. The violin because it's fretless and takes a while to be able to find and play decent sounding notes. Fortunately I'm past all that since I've been playing violin for about 3 years now. The piano is difficult for me pesonally because my fingers just won't do it. It's not even a matter of practice or skill. I think my fingers just don't have what it takes to play the piano (at least not fast and fluent), I can do the slow stuff ok. But my fingers just won't do the fast stuff fluently no matter how much I practice. I think I started too old (I was about 56 when I began piano).

I've kinda struggled with this too, especially for solo piano. As it's been said, orchestral and mixed chamber composers can't be expected to play every instrument they write for, but as a fairly competent (but not great) pianist, it seems almost "hypocritical" to write a piece I can't play myself. It's not so much technical limitation as it is being unable to conceptualize something that's more complex than the literature I'm familiar with.

I can make my point rather simply:

Jason Becker.

Berlioz played only the guitar, and composed incredible orchestral pieces. Schoenberg played the piano, but not too well, so he composed everything by ear and by hand. Stravinsky said he wrote everything on the piano and then orchestrated. Hindemith could play almost all orchestral instrument fairly decently, and his orchestrations are indeed very admirable. I don't think that playing an instrument makes a lot of difference, but knowing an the instruments and knowing how to play them (although you might not be able to play them yourself) is what matters. For example, if you know how the trombone works and how high/low it can go and how much control the players have in the higher/lower notes in terms of dynamics etc, you can avoid writing unplayable parts for the trombone, or parts which will be unplayable by non-professional performers.

Yeah, like Juji said, as long as you know the instrument then it will easily facilitate writing, even difficult writing. I wrote a Timpani solo, and I promise I do not play Timpani. I however learned the theory behind playing it, tuning it, what sounded good where and imagined how the performer would play it as I wrote (I air-Timpani'd along) and it turned out well.

So similarly, you can write harder music then you can play if you know the limitations and strengths of the instrument, and can write for any instrument in that fashion. :)

Absolutely not!!!

Yes... quite confused.

I play piano, but not well. I write at the piano, though. I don't let my computer do the composing for me. I sit down at the piano and plunk out the melody, and find the chords, and feel out the groove. It's not the kind of playing you'd ever want for a performance, but I can make sure that it's a piano part that's playable, even though I'm not a good piano player.

I play piano, but not well. I write at the piano, though. I don't let my computer do the composing for me. I sit down at the piano and plunk out the melody, and find the chords, and feel out the groove. It's not the kind of playing you'd ever want for a performance, but I can make sure that it's a piano part that's playable, even though I'm not a good piano player.

That's the way I feel about things. If I can plunk it out on the piano or squeak it out on the violin at all, or stutter it out on any instrument, then a real musician should be able to play it really well. ;)

Specifically, a composer should know the ins and outs of every instrument he writes for. This is what creates a good orchestrator. But knowing how the instrument works and it's range, timbres, etc., is much different than having the skill to play it, and I couldn't say whether I thought the one was better than the other.

There used to be a thing with composers being concert pianists and/or conductors as well, but that has seemed to disappear. Nowadays it's perfectly acceptable for a composer to have no instrument of their own, although most can and should be able to play piano at least fairly proficiently.

I have a friend who has a theory about Pianist's music and composers who cant play a lick of piano, and their approach to composition. You can see something similar to what I'm talking about in the musical differences of Steve Reich and Phillip Glass.

If you are composing at the piano, how likely are you to write microtonal music?

I believe you're not at fault if you're a composer who can't play his own work. What's more important, I guess, is you have a complete concept in your head about how that composition is supposed to be played, knowing the limits and the properties of the instrument, player, or ensemble you are writing for. I think a lot of composers can't really play the stuff they write out; however, it's good at least if you can play out your composition on an instrument of your choice and competency even if it's not at performance level. I also think that if you really want to be able to play your own piece with your own instrument, it's just the same as approaching another piece of music although I believe that you'll be able to learn it easier than most since it's your own work anyway.

And, by the same token, I write theatre songs. I write for voices. I have friends with magnificent voices and ranges. I have a good voice with an average range. If I write a song for one of my soprano friends who can sing three octaves, I'm sure as hell never going to be able to sing that.