Do i need "Talent" to be a good composer?

Hello all

i play the classical guitar for two years now.the classical guitar musis opend my eyes to great world of classical music

and i have decided to start learning music composing.

in one month i'm going to have my first harmony text book by walter pistion(the most recommended).

(and the Edward Aldwell, Carl Schachter book on harmony and maybe Schoenberg's)(and i'm ready to read a thousand book if that what it takes)

my question is

the ability to compose is it in born? or can'it be developed?

or in another way is it a talent either you have or not.

or is it like what j.s.Bach have said

"I have had to work hard; anyone who works just as hard will get just as far":w00t:

sometimes i can come out with a beautiful melody line but i realy don't know what to do with to turn it into a piece

pepole how have heard me saying that i want to learn composing act like they have heard..i want to go to mars!

:angry:

Any Help ?thank you

Its definitely not fully hereditary. There is still some question over whether raw intelligence is in any way hereditary. Whether or not you can compose well has a lot to do with your exposure to the classics, as well as formal training in music theory (ear training, counterpoint, part writing, etc.). So, if your school has an AP Music Theory course, I would advise you to take it. You should buy an orchestration book as well as a few scores and recordings. Try to listen to as much as you can to broaden your possibilities as a composer.

But sometimes hard work isn't enough. I've seen plenty of hard-working people who just will never "get it".

It's definitely a combination of both. I believe that anyone can learn to write pretty solid compositions, but whatever Bach says, you can't be great without some inborn talent. Just work hard and you'll definitely get somewhere. Like ELS says, start composing and learning now. The younger you are, the more your brain is developing and the better you'll learn.

I believe inborn talent is more important. Without that you won't achieve much.

Like pretty much everything in this life, it's a mixture of luck, talent, and hard work.

90% hardwork. 5% inspiration. 4% luck. 1% hereditary.

i might be exaggerating a bit. ;)

As long as we're getting technical, I supposed I'll put my numbers down:

93% hard work

7% talent

But yeah, music is competitive, so if you're talking about really being good, it's the seven percent that matters.

Also, if you want to be a professional composer, throw in an extra 20% of luck.

If you're just composing for fun, then who cares if you're talented?

Hate to be redundant, but it's indeed a mixture of a creative predisposition for musical expression and a ton of learning/studying/internalizing the concepts of music theory and composition (though one might say that the ability to put that much effort into learning it is itself a predisposition).

or in another way is it a talent either you have or not.

or is it like what j.s.Bach have said

"I have had to work hard; anyone who works just as hard will get just as far":w00t:

sometimes i can come out with a beautiful melody line but i realy don't know what to do with to turn it into a piece

pepole how have heard me saying that i want to learn composing act like they have heard..i want to go to mars!

Composition is the hardest profession in the music business because there's so much working against the composer. But why is the composer always the most glorified and respected person? (Name 6 instrumentalists in the 18th century that did not compose their own music.) The composer is the paramount in musical talent and knowledge. As a composer, one has to know everything about everything in music in order to write, the talent and creativity (surprised Along with this vast knowledge comes no one mentioned that yet) to use this knowledge and create music.

Now, here is the ultimate paradox of the whole profession, composition cannot be taught. Composition, as those who "teach" it know, is learned not through direct teaching, but through osmosis. One writes scores, receives critiques, and then makes his writing better. There's no way to actually teach how to make a melody or how to develop them. Sure, you can teach orchestration, counterpoint, harmony, variation technique, melody shapes, but all of these are in the past, looking at what other composers did and showing composers "tried and true" methods of doing something. Does this make them right? No. Are the wrong? Of course not! Composition is the most subjective topic to learn. So much is based on one's own tastes and how one wants his music to sound. Knowledge can only guide a composer in the right direction; it's what the composer decides to do in that direction that defines him as a composer or someone who just doesn't "get it."

You cannot put a percentage marking on talent and hard work and so forth because every single person is different due to this subjectivity. It involves talent and creativity. Those are inborn and if you don't have them, you won't become a composer; they are absolutely necessary to composing music composing is about being creative and making music, not about sounding the most like Bach or Schoenberg (as your theory teachers may make it sound like it is). It is the most personal activity of all music because only you will know the true meaning of the music you write.

With talent and creativity comes hard work. The talent and creativity don't compose by themselves. You must learn and take your knowledge of orchestration, counterpoint, harmony, variation technique, melody shapes and so forth, and use it do write the music. Only armed with this knowledge will a composer become great. This is why so many composers do not become great composers; they do not bother to learn what must be learned in order to compose. They refuse to learn either because their ignorant or because the theory is "old school" and doesn't apply today. It all applies! Everything from the beginning of time to the present day all applies. Music is a growing and evolving art form and those that ignore other eras or genres will not be able to put their music in perspective to everything else. One needs to create music that is unlike any other, only then will a composer truly be great.

One of the overlooked aspects of composition but incredibly critical is passion. A composer must have passion for his music and for all music. Otherwise he wouldn't become a composer. Composers must face incredible odds in the real world and only those that have the passion, the determination and drive to write music will survive and be great. And passion does not just mean like a hobby or second job. Passion is a complete devotion to the music. Like Freddie Highmore said in August Rush, he loved music "more than food." This is the passion that every composer must have: to live and breathe the music.

In short: knowledge, talent, creativity, hard work, and passion. All are essential to being a composer. Come to think of it, August Rush is a great example of this. He has talent and creativity, passion abound. But once he learns the knowledge of being a composer, through hard work, he becomes a composer and conductor of the New York Philharmonic. This is the example that we all need to follow.

Actually age and desire replace talent.

You can have someone with some inborn ability(huh? how can you even measure it) but has no desire to do it and has grown out of it(our ears get worse with age as do other problems) and someone with less innate ability but much more desire.

Obviously given everything else equal talent will edge one out over someone that isn't as talented. But in general that factor does not come into play. More importantly is intelligence, desire, environment, age, and amount of effort put in.

Given the right environment just about anyone can be a musical genius(probably 99% of the population because we have to exclude all those with genetic defects that completely prevent them from doing anything musical).

Ask any musical genius that teaches what he'd rather have: Raw drive with little talent or vice versa and I think we know what he will want.

The point is that you can "replace" or substitute the talent by working harder but not vice versa. (of course there is a certain amount of intelligence needed to do this too. Complete morons, no matter how much they work at it will just never get it)

We all know of people who have innate abilities for something, at least we think there innate, but have no desire.

(also, I think a lot of people try to put it all into talent for two reasons: Either they have talent and hence it makes them feel special or they want to make an excuse for not working hard. The fact of the matter is that you cannot measure "raw talent" and therefor it should be excluded over the much more important and measurable quantities. Hard work and passion will overcome just about anything. I've seen video's of people with no hands playing the piano with there feet or people with deformed hands playing guitar... much better than fully functioning people)

First let me thank you profusely all for your fast replies

ELS you have said :Whether or not you can compose well has a lot to do with your exposure to the classics

Recently i'm trying my best to hear as much classical music i can.

and you have said:So, if your school has an AP Music Theory course

here in syira it's really hard to find formal music-composing teachers

JonSlaughter you are the only one who have said that age and desire replace talent

and you have emphasize over intelligence and passion and that i have

Justin Tokke thank you for taking the time to write this long yet insightfull comment

knowledge i don't have it i'll try my best to have it

hard work bring it on!

passion yes i have that to extrem level

and all of you have talked about talent and creativity

i don't know if i have them and allways have supposed that i don't have them(actually the whole univers convince you so)

and thus my following question

how do i know that i have talent or creatvity

and i have never recievd a formal music teaching?

and thank you very much

and thus my following question

how do i know that i have talent or creatvity

and i have never recievd a formal music teaching?

"talent" is really tough to measure. well, it's not really about measuring, don't think is sort of amount of talent. anyway, even more difficult if one is quite at the beginning of the road.

yet i've met with professionals -not many...- who have that ability (another form of talent, really), to just listen to a couple of things you've done, no matter how naive of awkward, and be sure if there is growing path for you or not.

i had some similar feelings not long ago, like "am i to spend my time and effort with something i may not be even good at?". just look for people with experience and that you trust, and ask. it may help.

all the things you are thank you for your comment.

to meet those really hard to find professionals and even get in touch with them here in syria is just hard if not impossible and if they don't don't know you they just try to put you down

But i'll try to find such a person and maybe if i could write something i'd post it here and maybe one of the professional composers here on the forum would tell me how he think.:thumbsup:

thanks:)

Sounds like a good plan. There's lots of great people on here. Sever pros too if I'm not mistaken.

In the end it's all just about karma. I mean, if you're being reborn as a snail you can work as hard as you want, you're never going to be able to hold a pencil or use Finale. And even if you did, probably nobody would take you seriously, because, face it... you're ugly and slimy and eat people's flowers. You're simply out of luck.

But I'm sure the Snail would be able to use Sibelius! lol :D

But I'm sure the Snail would be able to use Sibelius! lol :D

Hahaha ! Yes, quite

- Blenching Snail

HOLY CRAP!! You're alive!!!

:O

I had heard you were killed in helicopter accident whilst skiing in the swiss alps!

How've you been?!

You can teach anyone to compose (harmony, counterpoint, etc.)

But you cant teach how to be a composer. I think some are more predisposed to composing, but I dont think it is inborn.

You can teach anyone to compose (harmony, counterpoint, etc.)

But you cant teach how to be a composer. I think some are more predisposed to composing, but I dont think it is inborn.

I strongly agree. Composing isn't something that you can teach. However, music is something that everyone can relate to, whether they write it themselves or not.

thank you all for your replies

i'm most thankfull:)

i think that if you have a passion for this, you should go for it. i have only been playing the piano for two years. but i have composed melodies that have one me first place in compotitions. whatever your age, whatever your skill, whatever your instrument, if you have a passion for this, GO FOR IT! Listening to a variety of music will help. learn your theory. embrace music. learn from your mistakes. and as far as your short pieces of music go, keep them. they might just be the beginning of a great masterpiece. and just like writers, musicians go through times when we can't come up with something. but that is okay. sometimes just taking a break can help with that. and no matter what anyone tells you. You are writing for you, and only you. well i hope this has helped.

49.5% Forced Work

24.75% Excitement

24.75% Number Crunching / Pattern Recognition (Sometimes known as "Smarts")

1% Error

you must, have to and best: can force music. its hard work and sticking with it. then: revising and revisiting. one big mistake to me imho ist to everytime start something new instead of clockworking.