Thoughts on video game music

So, in conclusion, yes, video games are good for the music community, because I know of at least one example of a musician who may not have become a musician had he not listened to video game music a lot as a child.

Apparently there are more examples of such individuals who have posted in this thread, so I think it is safe to say this conclusion is objective and correct. (i.e. there must be hundreds if not thousands more besides just the few who post on this site)

I don't think you can say that it's an absolutely correct conclusion. It's clear that it's brought more people in, but I also see a lot of hero-worship of video game composers, and a lot of refusal to move beyond the limitations of the format.

So, in conclusion, yes, video games are good for the music community, because I know of at least one example of a musician who may not have become a musician had he not listened to video game music a lot as a child.

Apparently there are more examples of such individuals who have posted in this thread, so I think it is safe to say this conclusion is objective and correct. (i.e. there must be hundreds if not thousands more besides just the few who post on this site)

I don't think you can say that it's an absolutely correct conclusion.  It's clear that it's brought more people in, but I also see a lot of hero-worship of video game composers, and a lot of refusal to move beyond the limitations of the format.

Of course, this is the only right conclusion. A counterexample would be a child virtuoso who wasted his time on a Nintendo 64 listening to Koji Kondo, instead of working on Carl Czerny's studies.

expired

Some game music is very good, but just because it usually takes place in the classical vein you must remember it's quite minimalistic because a lot of expierance is based off of the visual. If you put Fantasie Improtu in C minor obviously it would steal the spotlight of the human mind.

you bring up an interesting point. If a classical piece were indeed used in a video game, would the player automatically sit up and take notice?

The question is: How much does our idolization of a given piece of music depend on historical importance of a composer, and how much of it depends simply upon how good that piece of music is?

I am of the opinion that people alive today, even mere video game composers, are quite capable of composing as well as all the dead guys. At least in the realm of melody and harmony, I am confident this is done all the time in many scenarios: movies, games, hobbyists, etc.

you bring up an interesting point. If a classical piece were indeed used in a video game, would the player automatically sit up and take notice?

It's all about context, really. I've actually heard classical pieces used in video games before.

Most of the time, I sit up and take notice because it sounds terrible in that context. Most classical music isn't meant to loop. The annoying thing is usually that it builds to its climax, comes to a close... and starts all over! And the fact that it grabs so much attention that it distracts one from the game.

On the other hand, I've also heard examples of pieces being used to brilliant effect in video games. The most stunning I remember is actually a user-created campaign for Doom (gotta love those old-school games!) titled "The Elements", in which each level (Air, Water, Fire, Earth) used a classical piece as background music. "Air" - one of the few custom Doom levels in which the creator successfully produced the illusion of open-air spaces - featured Bach's Air on the G String, which gave it a truly surreal effect. Also, "Fire" used Grieg's "Hall of the Mountain King", again very appropriately.

Context, context, context. Just as most classical music sounds absolutely terrible in a video game setting, most video game music derives a good deal of its dramatic impact from the game itself and can't stand on its own as concert music.

Generally, I'm not one to idolize music based on the composer. After all, my most common listening habit is to look for relatively unknown pieces that deserve more attention. I've made the contention that Rheinberger was as good as any other composer of his day.

In terms of melody and harmony, video game composers are very solid... but those are only two very basic technical aspects that almost every composer, whether great or mediocre, is able to master. But there's more to composition than stringing together phrases...

One demo game for Mac I used to play made use of midi files of one mazurka and one polonaise of chopin. I found it delightful; these kind of things are already sectional forms with repeats that don't suffer badly at all at the hands of an endless loop.

It's somewhat the same with certain pieces of art or animation. If your meant to focus on one particular part of the painting for example all the rest of the visiual will either be blurred or less intresting on an intracate sence. (This effect in art is called point of contrast)

On the other hand if its put right it will indeed add to the whole expierance not just the audio one.

Nothing beats pwning some noobs in sof2 while having some complex music on. :laugh:

I've just read multiple interviews with Akira Yamaoka (who is an obnoxious donkey, it seems :)) and immediately thought of this thread. *is posting transcript(s), just for the sake of bUMPing*

Transcript;

M4G: The Silent Hill soundtracks are widely available as commercial CD releases in Japan. Why do you think game music in Japan is so popular compared to the USA?

Akira Yamaoka: I think it is the nature of the video game sound itself. I must say that the sense and ability of these video game sound creators are extremely low. One of the reasons of this low level is that a lot of their motivation does not come from "I want to make some video games!" In fact, the reality is "I used be in a band for a living, but I decided to work in a video game company to see how it is like." Or, "I love cinema music. If I could work on video games, I might be able to get involved with something close to that." Or, "I learned some musical theory in college. I can write some music" etc. The way of expression comes from the bottom or "root" level in creating video game sound. The sound which is created from these people is very far from being recognized and evaluated by many people. I am not saying that this applies to all sound people, but it is a fact that most of them are like this.

The reason why game music is accepted more widely in Japan than in the U.S. is because there are more core gamers in Japan than in the U.S. Maybe, the music sense of the Japanese is so unique that it accepts even non-professional sounds! (laughs) I think there are more opportunities to do something new in video game sound and to be evaluated by many people than in other areas. It would be great if we could create a new type of expression through sound, since video games can express music in an interactive way.

GGM:

Several years ago when we last chatted you did not like most video game music. How do you feel about game music these days?

Akira Yamaoka:

I still am not fond of game music. There is not a single "artist" (game music) from the game industry yet and we are relying on tie-up music from the music industry, which is very sad. We need to take in to consideration, how to develop music/sound "artists" within our industry. I believe that we are in the same status as 4 years ago, and that makes me not very fond of game music.

Spelmusik: Is there any game music you like yourself? Do you have any favourite game music composer?

– Unfortunately, there isn’t any game music I like. I do not have any favourite game music composer, either. It seems to me that many of the game music composers do their work as their side business. I cannot really have respect or a close feeling toward much of the game music I’ve heard. I suppose many of the video game music creators are really shallow... In other words, those people seem to be in the business just because their true dreams did not come true; person A might have wanted to do business in the music business, person B might have wanted to play in a band, but could not make enough money, etc.

This seems a bit misinformed for the most part, but I think he's spot on concerning a few things.

Clearly Mr. Yamaoka here has very little knowledge of the industry outside the borders of Japan. Neat find though, and a great thread to revive :mellow:

I find lots of video game music deficient of quality. A lot of it's just to do with what you listen out for in music, probably. For example, my brother, an avid fan of film and game music, tends to get "stimulated" (for lack of a better word) by music with loud bass, big drums and blaring brass without there being an emphasis on melody or anything. A lot of what he plays would really bore the hell out of me. On the other hand I can get excited by the amazing counterpoint of the Brandenburg Concertos but my brother wouldn't at all appreciate it. Our tastes aren't so mutually exclusive, however; we overlap at Stravinsky or Shostakovich.

Having said that I'm sure some game music is good but I just haven't really been exposed to it yet.

Having said that I'm sure some game music is good but I just haven't really been exposed to it yet.

Try the Golden Sun series on GBA, they have some pretty nice themes :)

Anything by Jeremy Soule or Jason Hayes.

"I must say that the sense and ability of these video game sound creators are extremely low"

And yet Nobuo Uematsu takes up, 90% of my iPod! I love game music. 1st of all there's the nostalgia value for the game if you've played it, but in truly exceptional peices the music itself is just beautiful, even if yopu've not played the game. Both my examples are Uematsu I'm afraid XP

- "Waterside (for piano and orchestra)" from the Blue Dragon OST. I've not played this game (and TBH, alot of the soundtrack is a bit boring.) but this piece is magical. I love it.

- "Ending Theme" from Final Fantasy VIII. Simply spectacular and after listening to it 100 times I still get a chill down my spine as it reaches the climax.

I guess game music can be boring at times, as most of it is background stuff, and quite often arrangements of the original pieces are better, like the FITHOS LUSEC WITHOS VINOSEC album taken from FFVIII. But for Yamaoka to say game composers lack ability? Hmm. I very much disagree.

Nice pieces indeed, but I don't have much faith in Uematsu; The entire soundtrack to blue dragon was given a major facelift by professional arrangers and the FF8 ending theme is basically composed by Shiro Hamaguchi.

Where do you find all this out? OK, arrangers'll be credited but where are you finding out to what extent they're involved? Because I can't find much poking round the internet. Well, other than people on other forums who share that idea.

I found the info on Blue dragon on the net, will post a link if I can somehow find the site again...

Otherwise, Yeah, they never really disclose how much actual arranging the score undergoes but you can Look at the few arranged tracks to which original versions are known (*whew*); the arranged editions feature some masterfull arranging at times.

Not sure bout the FF8 theme there but I agree with alot of what you say. I mean, I loved the FFVII Main Theme as it was in the OST, but Hamaguchi's arrangment is spectacular.

I still have faith in Uematsu, even if his technical ability IS awful then at the very least I love the themes and basic ideas he comes up with. I'm pretty sure Aerith's Theme in FFVII was his own work, and that was something special before it was orchestrated.

Whatever you think of Nobuo though, the point is that the finished video game music can be pretty special, so Yamaoka is very much wrong in my opinion!

Yamaoka just needs to broaden his musical horizons. His music is cool though!

I still have faith in Uematsu, even if his technical ability IS awful then at the very least I love the themes and basic ideas he comes up with. I'm pretty sure Aerith's Theme in FFVII was his own work, and that was something special before it was orchestrated.

Yes, yes, this I agree with. :)

There IS good video game music out there. Just check out Guilty Gear X2's OST(Although, if you're not into heavy metal, you might not like it). It's filled with a ton of high quality heavy metal tracks, that seem to be inspired by heavy metal greats like Metallica, and Iron Maiden, as well as a lot of lesser known bands. The game itself even has a lot of rock and heavy metal references. Definitely not mediocre stuff, and in my opinion, is a lot better than most heavy metal bands.

Of course, this is the only right conclusion. A counterexample would be a child virtuoso who wasted his time on a Nintendo 64 listening to Koji Kondo, instead of working on Carl Czerny's studies.

Koji Kondo totally pwns Czerny as a composer.

Yea, Czerny wasn't very talented in the composition department.... his strength was obviously teaching!

Koji Kondo does indeed pwn Czerny... well put, Tomas :)

I heard the latest Zelda OST today. It was....good-ish, I thought, but the trouble was the game itself rarely called for epic orchestral tracks, which are the ones I love best!

Sorry to bump and old thread but this is a particular thread of interest to me.

I have to say that video game music is just as valid as any other kind of music. It IS created to fill a void in the background just like music from movies. However current pop music is almost the same today. Many people choose to use all music as background sound, as opposed to listening to it.

Even still good video game music is good music. Its the same as any genre. As a form it does have some inherent flaws, such as repetitiveness and hardware limitiations. I think the best music comes from the early era where sound quality was very bad and the prosessors couldn't handle a high level of polyphony. I think this forced composers to write in a interesting ways to overcome those handicaps. Current music can sound good by using high quality instruments and many layers. Its much much easier to make something sound pleasing this way and the music is often not as interesting.

I'm really surprised that no one mentioned Castlevania. I think that was the series that really got me into music. Nobuo Uematsu from Final Fantasy is good and writing melodies, and not too much else. Castlevania music sounds totally different. String a couple of songs together and add the transitions and you have a very respectible peice. The stuff is often keyless, minor and melodic, it throws in some rock and classical roots, and has plenty of counterpoint to boot. If you think of them as clips of larger songs (as they aren't allowed the length to form real songs) then this does sound like real music. String a few songs together and this stuff could definately be orchestrated.

I'm not trying to defend an arguement but take a listen if you are interested

http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/CV4-_Level_6B.mid

Thats a pretty decent represenative. I was going to post another but the host site is slowing up.

But I do have to say good video game music is a minority. And I also think that the quality of the composition in videogame music decreases as the quality of the sound proccessors increases.

Interesting thread.