Thoughts on video game music

Hmm, about that - here's my imcomplete pseudo-theory that I've came up with a while ago:

Anyways, I think older vgmusic seems to be more enjoyable to some because ultimately they could be more or less easily understood. Technical limitations (such as limited polyphony) really forced many composers to work in an very transparent, exposed, small-form styles if they wanted to create music that listeners can symphasize to.

But I have a feeling that a good number of these said composers probably felt some sort of dissatisifaction in writing music with such a quaint medium - ultimately, they probably wanted to create more grandiose works as in the film music, vgmusic's closest relative. Others might have wanted to create music as found those in mainstream media.

So while technology expanded, few wanted to stay on the quaint, 'old-school' style. The newer cinematic style or mainstream music approach (such as in those found in EA Sports games) that resulted pretty much mean they jumped off the original vgmusic track all-together, or nudged it towards (or backwards from) other directions rather than going deeper into exploring it's novel elements.

Well, this is mostly speculation on my part, but whatever.

Also sort of as a result in hesistance to purse original paths and really explore music on an interactive medium, vgmusic never really developed far from its roots, and ended up being always second-class citizens to graphics and gameplay. Part of the reason is probably that music is inherently abstract than graphics and gameplay, and there can never really be as clear a goal for where it should proceed (whereas graphics could always strive for closer realism, and gameplay for more interactivity). But it still ends up having enough of a presence that lackthereof would make it feel unsettling.

Of course, there's always the fact that videogames are still far from being a form of art as it is a form of entertainment. I remember having a conversion with someone on the topic, and he remarked that while some games can come of as stylish (ie, Metal Gear Solid, Okami, Final Fantasy), they really aren't what you can see as timeless pieces of art.

So much like film composers (as the vast majority of films are much more for entertainment rather than artful purposes), video game composers are pretty much spared the necessity of having to innovate to persist, instead pumping out one methodical piece after another. It's definitely a craft before it's an artform - as much western music is generally regarded before say Beethoven (not saying that they are not pieces of art, but that they often are conceived more to serve some function rather than be artistic in and of themselves) - though of course, works of high craftsmanship are usually considered art as well.

That said, while I enjoy vgmusic in general on sort of the base, sensual level, very I find for the most very little intellectual gratuity in these works. Many older works probably left a strong affects on me probably because I was at that naive, impressionable age, but if I were to look at them now without that subjectivity, ultimately they end up in sort of the same, uninspired mold.

^ I disagree with this entirely. No game is a timeless piece of art? Final Fantasy VII fans would disagree with you there. A decade after its original release two generations of consoles ago, with graphics and audio quality that are appaling by todays standards, players will still sit down and play it. How many other games can immerse players like this so long after their release and will continue to do so for years to come? Final Fantasy VII is the Casablanca of Video Games.

And the music is an integral part of this. Aeris Theme is a masterpiece for me. Suteki Da Ne is a masterpiece, Eyes on Me is as well. I think you have to give credit to a piece that I can sit down and class as one of my favourite pieces ever ten years after its release and still in its unorchestarted MIDI form.

And for my tastes I prefer game music to...well any other kind really. Classical pieces are too hard to follow, film music is too boring and uninspired for the most part and mainstream titles lack the subtlety. SO I think games and game music IS an art - and why develop it furthur when you already have a winning formula?

Well, I guess only with time can you really tell - it's just that personally I have a hard time seeing people even 50 years from now putting such games on artistic pedastals.

Also, the "why develop it furthur when you already have a winning formula" attitude is exactly what I see as problematic in the development of game music. The numerous video game composers that follow that mentality are resistant to change because they don't want to risk eschewing the commercial success of their work. Which seriously dampens the claim that such works artistic to me...

There IS good video game music out there. Just check out Guilty Gear X2's OST(Although, if you're not into heavy metal, you might not like it). It's filled with a ton of high quality heavy metal tracks, that seem to be inspired by heavy metal greats like Metallica, and Iron Maiden, as well as a lot of lesser known bands. The game itself even has a lot of rock and heavy metal references. Definitely not mediocre stuff, and in my opinion, is a lot better than most heavy metal bands.

Yes, the GG OSTs are great, high quality metal there! As I used to be a guitarist I was really into the soundtracks for that game. I can actually play some of the tunes :P

Such a controversial thread. I wish only to say that VGM has all possibilities and is certainly not restrained by anything.

The topic creator is right that I come from a VGM background (it's VGM that made me composing), but every musician/composer needs to know the basics and that is classical music.

Topic started in 2005, as for now there are many, many compositions that can be played on a concert, hopefully in the future I will be able to go to one myself...

PS: there is plenty of development in composing with VGM, you can see them in opening themes and staff rolls.

The thing with game music is so much of it is just in the background, and its hard to create truly brilliant pieces for "wandering around in a field". But it's things like Liberi Fatali, or Ending Themes that gives game music truly great pieces. All my examples are from Final Fantasy I admit just because I find those games have the best music but there are others - Hikari from Kingdom Hearts is a good one and the MGS main theme as well.

I enjoy a lot of video game music, especially Zelda, which is my favorite video game franchise. I find a lot of the pieces to be quite good, and to vary and develop rather well. I guess it depends on which game ect, because music like the original Super Mario Bros. theme is obviously a simple repeated tune, but more recently a lot of the music has gotten much more complex. Final Fantasy has also had some very nice music, even though I'm not much of a fan of the series.

-Landon

I know I'm reviving an ol' thread, but what the heck? I'm a new member here, and I simply can't hold away from saying something on this topic, because it is one that means a lot to me. I will talk about v.g. music, but will mostly focus on the composer, Nobuo Uematsu.

I don't know about the lot of you, but I find that much of the music of Nobuo Uematsu (former composer for the Final Fantasy series) is anything but background music. Some of you claim that the main reason people are so obsessed with V.G. music is because they're hardcore videogame freaks stricken with the Nostalgia syndrome. Well, I'd have to say that I'm an exception to that then. I'm not exactly into video games. I get bored real quick from smashing monsters and gaining levels... My brothers, however, used to play v. games, including several titles from the Final Fantasy series and that is how I happened upon the music of Mr. Uematsu. After that, I began to research his music and ultimately ended up getting all of the Final Fantasy soundtracks. I was thrilled by its beauty and melodic strength. It was quite unlike any other kind of music I've ever heard. Ever since I was a kid, being taught the piano, I always craved to learn to play those pieces that had emotion in them, but rarely would I find them--Tchaikovsky was my favorite composer because it seems he understood the importance of a strong melody. His music actually made me FEEL something, whereas a lot of the other generic-sounding classical music just left me spacing out... So when I heard some pieces from the FF series, it was like something I had been searching for so long.

The thing I completely don't understand is: Why do people compare v.g. music, namely Uematsu's music, with classical music? Why do it? They're completely different types of music written with different goals in mind. You might as well start comparing film, rock, and various electronic music to classical music for that matter, since Mr. U's music tends to lean toward those genres. So what that it gets performed in concert halls? It doesn't hurt anyone. If people love it, let them enjoy it. I personally dream of going to one of Uematsu's orchestral conerts some day.

I fully realize that a lot of "Dead Germans" as someone put it, were amazingly gifted people who laid the musical foundation for what we often take for granted today. However, I do believe that people like Uematsu are geniuses in their own right. It's not true that anyone can write a lovely melody. It takes talent to come up with a powerful melody and then to orchestrate and arrange it all so that it ultimately will be something that people will want to listen to again and again and again. I must say that I never get tired of a lot of the music from the FF series. Some of it just never ceases to fascinate me. I do believe that this music will be remembered for decades, centuries, maybe even ages... If I fell in love with Uematsu's music some 20 years after it was originally composed (FF I,II), I dare predict that there will indeed be those like me 100 years from now who will happen upon his music and eat it up with great appetite.

Someone claimed that it's the games that get people to love the music... Well it was exactly opposite for me. After I heard the amazing FINAL FANTASY VI soundtrack, I just had to play the game, simply to hear it in context of the plot, because I know Mr. Uematsu is so good at writing the perfect music for every situation. It is so far the first and only game out of the series that I have ever finished and yet I love all the soundtracks without ever having played the actual games. The Opening Theme of FF VI blows me away every time and gives me the chills. Some say that Uematsu's music is primitive and that melody is his only strength. I highly disagree there. Listen to Dancing Mad (FF VI's final boss theme)--in my opinion it is a phenomenal and rather complex 17-minute composition that takes up the whole range of the keyboard if you're gonna try to play it. And BTW, Uematsu scored the FF VI soundtrack ALL on his own without the help of any arrangers. That's pretty impressive for someone who didn't receive any formal musical education whatsoever. The FF VI OSV is often heralded as his magnum opus. It is a favorite of many people, and it's certainly one of mine. Take a listen to it--it has some good stuff.

I understand those of you who cannot digest Uematsu's music and I do not believe that there is right and wrong in music. I'm not trying to make someone like what I like. I'm just expressing my opinions and I respect those who differ. Every person enjoys different music for different purposes. I tend to lean more toward melodic stuff. This is why I can find common elements between composers such as Bach, Tchaikovsky, Hans Zimmer, and Uematsu. They all have that talent of producing powerful melodic music that takes me to another place. Sometimes it is very simple, but sometimes it's complicated, but it's all so amazing.

I would say that Mr. U's music is more directed toward a person's feelings. Those who are heavily/solely into classical music tend to focus more on techniques. I personally don't care for highly complex compositions if in the end they leave me with no impression or emotions. Yes Mozart and Beethoven had some true masterpieces, but I think they had some generic boring stuff as well even though technically perhaps, it was very well written.

I must also admit that N. Uematsu wrote a lot of crappy, boring stuff too. From all the FF's he has scored, I usually like no more than 50% of each soundtrack. But still, imagine how much music that is! Another reason some of you will not be able to appreciate his music is because usually the production quality of the soundtracks is "cheap,"(although I love it :D) especially the earlier OSTs. The thing is, Uematsu focuses most of his mind and energy on producing music that is powerful melody- and harmony-wise and to pack as much feeling into it as possible--this is why he often would neglect the sound quality part. He actually admit this in an interview. For me, sound quality is not at all an issue. I will hear and enjoy a brilliant composition even if I hear it as beeps out of a Gameboy or Nintendo NES. That is why I enjoy the FF soundtracks in their original unarranged, unorchestrated state.

The pioneer of this thread stated that v. game music lacks dimension--true, but not always. Uematsu's Opening and Ending themes are rich in dimension. And although alot of the tracks throughout the soundtracks keep looping over, I think they are excellent "blueprints" for writing some really nice, powerful compositions if they are edited and orchestrated.

And another thing, I am not a die-hard Uematsu fan either. It is beyond me what has happened with him lately. I think that he writes such uninspired, trashy music today, it makes me sick. Blue Dragon OST, Lost Odyssey OST, especially the latter: I think they're sooooo boring, other than a few nice tracks. It's sad. What happened to him I wonder. Maybe it's the effects of all that home-made beer... Uematsu, please redeem yourself!

Anyway, I could go on and on and on about this. I suppose I'm so in the mood for expressing my love for Uematsu's (former) music after reading all the criticizing posts about it in this thread and others.

I would just summarize my opinion on VG and classical music like this: if you want to be a brilliant, original musician, don't narrow yourself to only classical, only V.G., or only anything else. You gotta listen to and learn to appreciate all kinds of different music for all their different qualities and purposes.

Those are my two fat cents on the matter...

Oh yes, one more thing. You just have to take a listen to this:

It is a video of an orchestral performance of a large portion of Dancing Mad-the last battle theme in FF VI. I think it's great.

I wish I knew who wrote the e-swat soundtrax for arcade and SMS. :/

Adding on to the original intent of this thread somewhat 4 years ago?

I believe that answer is a firm YES. video game music is worthy of concert, under the hands of an experienced orchestrator. Just take a look at the VERY RECENT Echoes Of War Project done by Eminence Symphony Orchestra. Basically they got some of the top arrangers/orchestrators from japan (video game music industry) to re-arrangement Blizzard's music (Warcraft,starcraft etc.) into an epic orchestral compilation album.

The level of musicianship involved is really high and should not be undermined just because these are not coming from a classical master of some sort.

I URGE all YC members to go hear it.

P.S this is not some midi thingy that Derek previously posted and urged you guys to listen, check this one out, really.

ANd like wad Aangiere said, 100% agreed.

I know I'm reviving an ol' thread, but what the heck? I'm a new member here, and I simply can't hold away from saying something on this topic, because it is one that means a lot to me. I will talk about v.g. music, but will mostly focus on the composer, Nobuo Uematsu.

I don't know about the lot of you, but I find that much of the music of Nobuo Uematsu (former composer for the Final Fantasy series) is anything but background music. Some of you claim that the main reason people are so obsessed with V.G. music is because they're hardcore videogame freaks stricken with the Nostalgia syndrome. Well, I'd have to say that I'm an exception to that then. I'm not exactly into video games. I get bored real quick from smashing monsters and gaining levels... My brothers, however, used to play v. games, including several titles from the Final Fantasy series and that is how I happened upon the music of Mr. Uematsu. After that, I began to research his music and ultimately ended up getting all of the Final Fantasy soundtracks. I was thrilled by its beauty and melodic strength. It was quite unlike any other kind of music I've ever heard. Ever since I was a kid, being taught the piano, I always craved to learn to play those pieces that had emotion in them, but rarely would I find them--Tchaikovsky was my favorite composer because it seems he understood the importance of a strong melody. His music actually made me FEEL something, whereas a lot of the other generic-sounding classical music just left me spacing out... So when I heard some pieces from the FF series, it was like something I had been searching for so long.

The thing I completely don't understand is: Why do people compare v.g. music, namely Uematsu's music, with classical music? Why do it? They're completely different types of music written with different goals in mind. You might as well start comparing film, rock, and various electronic music to classical music for that matter, since Mr. U's music tends to lean toward those genres. So what that it gets performed in concert halls? It doesn't hurt anyone. If people love it, let them enjoy it. I personally dream of going to one of Uematsu's orchestral conerts some day.

I fully realize that a lot of "Dead Germans" as someone put it, were amazingly gifted people who laid the musical foundation for what we often take for granted today. However, I do believe that people like Uematsu are geniuses in their own right. It's not true that anyone can write a lovely melody. It takes talent to come up with a powerful melody and then to orchestrate and arrange it all so that it ultimately will be something that people will want to listen to again and again and again. I must say that I never get tired of a lot of the music from the FF series. Some of it just never ceases to fascinate me. I do believe that this music will be remembered for decades, centuries, maybe even ages... If I fell in love with Uematsu's music some 20 years after it was originally composed (FF I,II), I dare predict that there will indeed be those like me 100 years from now who will happen upon his music and eat it up with great appetite.

Someone claimed that it's the games that get people to love the music... Well it was exactly opposite for me. After I heard the amazing FINAL FANTASY VI soundtrack, I just had to play the game, simply to hear it in context of the plot, because I know Mr. Uematsu is so good at writing the perfect music for every situation. It is so far the first and only game out of the series that I have ever finished and yet I love all the soundtracks without ever having played the actual games. The Opening Theme of FF VI blows me away every time and gives me the chills. Some say that Uematsu's music is primitive and that melody is his only strength. I highly disagree there. Listen to Dancing Mad (FF VI's final boss theme)--in my opinion it is a phenomenal and rather complex 17-minute composition that takes up the whole range of the keyboard if you're gonna try to play it. And BTW, Uematsu scored the FF VI soundtrack ALL on his own without the help of any arrangers. That's pretty impressive for someone who didn't receive any formal musical education whatsoever. The FF VI OSV is often heralded as his magnum opus. It is a favorite of many people, and it's certainly one of mine. Take a listen to it--it has some good stuff.

I understand those of you who cannot digest Uematsu's music and I do not believe that there is right and wrong in music. I'm not trying to make someone like what I like. I'm just expressing my opinions and I respect those who differ. Every person enjoys different music for different purposes. I tend to lean more toward melodic stuff. This is why I can find common elements between composers such as Bach, Tchaikovsky, Hans Zimmer, and Uematsu. They all have that talent of producing powerful melodic music that takes me to another place. Sometimes it is very simple, but sometimes it's complicated, but it's all so amazing.

I would say that Mr. U's music is more directed toward a person's feelings. Those who are heavily/solely into classical music tend to focus more on techniques. I personally don't care for highly complex compositions if in the end they leave me with no impression or emotions. Yes Mozart and Beethoven had some true masterpieces, but I think they had some generic boring stuff as well even though technically perhaps, it was very well written.

I must also admit that N. Uematsu wrote a lot of crappy, boring stuff too. From all the FF's he has scored, I usually like no more than 50% of each soundtrack. But still, imagine how much music that is! Another reason some of you will not be able to appreciate his music is because usually the production quality of the soundtracks is "cheap,"(although I love it :D) especially the earlier OSTs. The thing is, Uematsu focuses most of his mind and energy on producing music that is powerful melody- and harmony-wise and to pack as much feeling into it as possible--this is why he often would neglect the sound quality part. He actually admit this in an interview. For me, sound quality is not at all an issue. I will hear and enjoy a brilliant composition even if I hear it as beeps out of a Gameboy or Nintendo NES. That is why I enjoy the FF soundtracks in their original unarranged, unorchestrated state.

The pioneer of this thread stated that v. game music lacks dimension--true, but not always. Uematsu's Opening and Ending themes are rich in dimension. And although alot of the tracks throughout the soundtracks keep looping over, I think they are excellent "blueprints" for writing some really nice, powerful compositions if they are edited and orchestrated.

And another thing, I am not a die-hard Uematsu fan either. It is beyond me what has happened with him lately. I think that he writes such uninspired, trashy music today, it makes me sick. Blue Dragon OST, Lost Odyssey OST, especially the latter: I think they're sooooo boring, other than a few nice tracks. It's sad. What happened to him I wonder. Maybe it's the effects of all that home-made beer... Uematsu, please redeem yourself!

Anyway, I could go on and on and on about this. I suppose I'm so in the mood for expressing my love for Uematsu's (former) music after reading all the criticizing posts about it in this thread and others.

I would just summarize my opinion on VG and classical music like this: if you want to be a brilliant, original musician, don't narrow yourself to only classical, only V.G., or only anything else. You gotta listen to and learn to appreciate all kinds of different music for all their different qualities and purposes.

Those are my two fat cents on the matter...

Oh yes, one more thing. You just have to take a listen to this:

It is a video of an orchestral performance of a large portion of Dancing Mad-the last battle theme in FF VI. I think it's great.

*APPLAUDS LOUDLY*

That was a brilliant rant, I must say. I personally haven' t really looked at composers or even listened to any of the music from final fantasy, but what you said I can completely relate too, especially how classical and v. game music are completely different.

I must do me some research on that guy you kept mentioning.

I've never really been overly impressed with the music from any other games besides ones made by Nintendo, all the old classics (Zelda of course, . I don't know what it is about nintendo, but I think they (or at least used to) stretch further into the realm of the video game genre, rather then writing like movie music (eg. the Halo soundttrack for x-box). Film is another completely different genre in itself. That's if you can even catagorise video game music and film music into a genre... I think it completely depends on each movie/game as an almost completely different medium.

Melodies truly make the song either unique or boring, but i've always been so much more concerned with where the chords are headed, and how a chord can completely define a moment, even if it's a plain old C major. Video game music really can have seemingly almost no regard to keys, or scales or whatever, but then when you pull them apart, it's not necissarily(I think I spelt that wrong :S) complex, but it's alot more free and interesting than 'songs', but it still follows a structured pattern for the most part.

For example, At the end of Mario Bros. main theme, the last two chords are F Major and Db Major... how the hell does a Db work in a C major scale, you might ask? Well it's just a Sub for G. It's intersting, and different, but it's still a lovely IV VI I :)

Anyways I think that's the end of my rant, I hope it made sense.

here's a link to a clip from zelda that I re-wrote the music too if you wanna have a listen =]

>CLICKY<

Not willing to dive into any rants at the moment, but I'll start by saying that video game music was definitely my starting point. I would have had no desire to pursue composition if I had not been exposed to Final Fantasy VII when my parents bought my brother and I a PSX for Christmas when I was in 5th grade. I fell in love with the music of PSX era RPGs in a way that I had never really felt about music before. Classical piano lessons were cool sometimes, but not in the same way.

I have since the PS2 era, fallen out of the video game loop primarily because JRPGs have (for the time being (hopefully)) become an obsolete genre. It is a rather amazing thing to me that JRPG soundtracks basically used to function as emotional narrative for an entire story. With the introduction of things such as voice acting, aside from diminishing the potential for JRPGs to be taken seriously, the soundtracks were also forced to take a backseat to the voices, and music became more like film scores than anything else really.

One thing that is VERY true that a lot of people overlook is the advantage of familiarity that it has. Yes, when you hear the same music looped over and over again you're bound to become attached to it as the familiarity grows (provided it is decent in quality). And of course, if you associate said music with experiences within the games, you are unable to separate "song X" from "Y shooting Z in the back with a bow and arrow." But why not look at it from the other side? The fact that the music basically gave meaning to entire stories. You have these sprites with extremely limited detail, you have their pixelated basic gestures (shrugging, rearing back in shock, etc), and you have... text boxes.

Soundtracks gave meaning to an entire generation of video game legends. They called on the imagination of the player to fill in all of the gaps that technology of the time couldnt.

I find it sad that that has ended, but I supposed somewhere deep down I have hope that they'll make a comeback.

That being said, I think that people far too often undermine the ability to assign music to extra musical concepts, I am referring particularly to soundtracks, of course. But in particular, think of what it takes to pull off a video game soundtrack as opposed to a film soundtrack.

In film, how much of the time is the music actually at the forefront? Sure, you can say film music is always in the background, but there are times when a melody is presiding over everything, and there are other times when simply harmonies and basic figures are used to fill the empty space. I suppose more importantly, with the right timing, film music is allowed to sit in the background.

Alternatively, video game music does not have this luxury, and plenty of the time must simply capture an atmosphere. It has to be versatile in a way that film music does not call for, but at the same time, it has the freedom of exploring its music as an independent entity. When it comes to film music... if the piece itself calls for just 10 more seconds of development to complete the idea... too bad; you cant miss the queue.

But yes, I feel that people far too often overlook the ability to write melodies or ideas that capture a specific feeling. Or just the ability to write music that sounds good in general. I cant believe how many people feel that they can legitimately turn their noses up to Hanz Zimmer or John Williams and then go off to a Haydn concert as though his 106 symphonies are any different from what the former 2 are writing. No, Haydn did not manage to write 106 symphonies without repeating himself.

A short bit on composers:

-Nobuo Uematsu will always stand out to me for his work on early Final Fantasies. He clearly has a profound talent for writing melodies, and he is actually quite good at developing his themes. I think it's kind of a shame that he received no formal training, because it's clear that his orchestration just isnt quite good enough to push him into the current generation of digital music. I find it disheartening that both of his recent games just havent been up to the standards of his previous work. Some of what he did for Final Fantasy VII still blows me away, particularly pieces like Mako Reactor and the Main Theme.

-Yasonuri Mitsuda is the closest video game composer to Nobuo Uematsu that I have come across, but he is a bit more well rounded I guess. I found out he did Shadow Hearts, which I played recently, and I was rather shocked because of how unimpressed I was with the soundtrack. Xenosaga was an amazing score regardless, and the difference in quality between Xeonsaga I and the other 2 games is clear to me.

-I suppose my number 3 would be Sakimoto. I find him really interesting because he develops his ideas in much more intricate ways, and his orchestration is really just top notch. I loved his work for FFT, and the way he manages to tie his themes into so many tracks is somewhat mind blowing. I actually took a close look at it recently and found that there are at least 4 themes that can be heard in 6 or more tracks. Ramza's theme in particular is in something like 12 of them. Cool stuff.

And I suppose when it comes to repetition.... look, just because Beethoven could pull off 45 minute symphonies does not mean that it has justified (or called for) the absurdity that has plagued concert music since then.

"Too many pieces of music finish too long after the end."

-Igor Stravinksy