What are my Chances?

I was just wondering, what are my chances of getting into a career involving music or even being able to enter a University for music? You see, I stumbled upon the wonders of music fairly late in my life. I've been practicing piano for just slightly over a year now, and although I have progressed greatly I fear that it might not meet the requirements for entering University.

I practice for about 4 hours each day. I used to practice almost nothing except for pieces, but recently in the past few months or so I began seriously practicing the essential things. Now 1-2 hours of my practice is devoted entirely to scales and arpeggios while the rest of my time is used mostly for etudes and playing pieces I've previously learned.

I only have a year left until University, or two years if I decide to take a year off and dedicate it entirely to music.

So, I want your honest opinion... Do you think I'll be able to acquire the skills I need in time for University?

It's not for us to decide whether or not you should shoot to become a pianist even though you just started, but it sounds unlikely that you will be able to catch up in that time. Who knows though, you could have some crazy talent - maybe if you uploaded a recording of you playing something we could help you out more.

how old are you? and how long do you have to prepare until the auditions? (I'm in the same race against time..)

...I've been practicing piano for just slightly over a year now...

I only have a year left until University, or two years if I decide to take a year off and dedicate it entirely to music.

You've got a lot of ground to cover - and the technical aspect isn't your main barrier. You'll likely get all that under your fingers pretty quickly, but I worry more about developing yourself as an artist.

You'll have a lot of work ahead of you - but with dedication and smart practicing you should be okay.

If you want to go to university for an instrumental study, there will be a whole slew of requirements you'll need to meet before you can even audition. Most universities that I know of require grade 10 as a preliminary to even enter the classical piano course. Jazz is a little different, but it's still pretty hard.

Composition/Theory/Musicology, on the other hand, is a little easier to get in. The composition program at the University of Toronto requires you to only have grade 6 in any instrument and theory grade plus a portfolio assessement. Once your in that, you'll have access to all the great musicians in all the programs, and you'll still be able to practice piano (or anything else for that matter) without being regimented with the fact that you're studying an instrument professionally. See, a performance major basically means "this is what you're doing now", at least for a few years. Plus, you'll be getting graded alongside all the Europeans and Asians who've been playing seriously their whole lives.

Also, take the year off if you feel you'll need it, but remember that it's a teensy weensy more difficult to get in if you aren't right out of highschool. It would probably be of great benefit to you, though, to take a year off and perhaps do private lessons rigerously if you want to prepare for uni. Or just study on your own if you think you can do it.

Good luck!

You certainly have good chances - I started music after college. Progress was painfully slow (especially when walking around the hallways seeing amazing 10 year old performers!) but your goal it to keep at it with a focus on getting better incrementally. Don't think too much about the days when there will be stunned audience in awe of your every idea or inflection. Just focus on getting better bit by bit. Eventually I went to graduate school in composition. I had to audition piano which was terrifying, but ultimately, the teachers said if I focused on piano exclusively for 1 year, they would let me in. The point is - there is a way if you want it bad enough and you are definately not too old nor too far behind the others to pursue music as a career. Though I always felt behind compared to my collegues, by the end of the program, I hard learned a lot and received an award for outstanding achievement plus earned the respect of my classmates and profs. I am definately nothing special in the talent department, I just love writing music and am always trying to improve at it! The bottom line, I'm positive you can do it if you love music so much and I do believe you are referring to composition rather than piano, right, since this is a composer web site?

Do you have a private teacher? That will certainly help partially because they'll help you prepare for auditions and things as well as learn about the technical skills of playing. You also need to focus on a speciality rather than a general "career in music". There are many ways to earn a living doing something in music. You can teach, conduct, perform, compose, orchestrate, arrange, copy, notate, etc. You probably don't just want a career in music, but want to focus on some specific area, right?

Well, I'm completing a BFA in Music Composition with 0 prior knowledge aside from rock bass guitar :)

Totally can be done, given you're in the US and are not looking for for a top-league school. I did it, anyway, and I don't think I'm too special (and I even had crappy grades in HS). Frankly, from what you've written I think you're more than capable of being a BFA major in performance at my school. :)

yeah, I have auditions coming up... Just focus on polishing the pieces you're gonna play. To try listen for passages where your technique seems unatural or uncomfortable and work these passages. (You're really gonna have to become a piano freak... I mean all your life is gonna have to revolve around practicing.... and reduced bathroom and eating time lol) Work on technique (related to your repertoire) during the day and work out notes at night. My teacher told me this, and it helps because you consolidate the information you learned just before your sleep. It sounds weird but that's what I did to memorize the Prokofiev tocatta... all that chromatic thirds scraggy... And have a mirror next to your piano, look for weird motions and eliminate them. If you use your brain, you can have an awesome technique without the years it takes most people.

I think you need to discuss this with a careers advisor or teachers at your current institution. Without knowing in detail quite how talented you are, the Universities to which you might wish to apply and so on, it's rather difficult to make any sort of judgement.

Ultimately, if you know that you would enjoy studying Music at University, this is what I recommend. In England at least there are courses that cater for all abilities; I daresay this is the case in the Americas too. Here admissions tutors will consider candidates by potential ability as well as manifested ability. An experienced interviewer should be able to recognise ability, whatever the level of attainment so far. You will be going to University to learn, after all.

This is pretty much an impossible question to answer with the info that you've given out. Without actually hearing you play I have no way of knowing what your chances are. You could practice 20 hours a day, but without a certain degree of natural talent, I have no way of knowing.

Post some samples of you playing and then people will be able to give you a much better estimate.

Also in response to this statement:

Also, take the year off if you feel you'll need it, but remember that it's a teensy weensy more difficult to get in if you aren't right out of highschool. It would probably be of great benefit to you, though, to take a year off and perhaps do private lessons rigerously if you want to prepare for uni. Or just study on your own if you think you can do it.

Be very careful when considering taking a break from school. Every one of my friends that "took a break" from school have yet to graduate, and I started college ten years ago. One guy was just going to take one semester off to think things over (his career choice, life, etc) and he is still classified as a second semester sophomore. I'm not saying it can't be done, just be very careful. Life has a way of getting in the way of going back to school. It seems to be much easier just to get through college in one steady, continuous effort.

Talk to people at some schools you may want to attend..Go take some lessons from a professor at a nearby reputable music college. Some schools do not require a superbly advanced musician for entrance. If you truly display the drive that you seem to have, you may be just as appreciated. Are you looking to be a performance major, composition, education? All of this will also effect your chances. Regardless, if music is what you want to do, I suggest you apply right out of high school. Do not take a break. You will likely get in somewhere if you put in the effort, and if not, you will have a much better idea of what to expect. Particularly if you want to be a music ed major, at least go to a community college to get your core classes out of the way. Myself, I had played music most of my life and had been thinking I would audition on guitar, but changed my mind a couple of months before my senior year. I had played sax in school, but had not seriously practiced since middle school. I ended up putting a lot of effort into improving and was accepted at the university I had hoped for and am now in my senior year. If you want to be a music major, just do it.

Thanks for all of the replies, especially the encouraging ones.

...I'm positive you can do it if you love music so much and I do believe you are referring to composition rather than piano, right, since this is a composer web site?

Do you have a private teacher?...

Actually, I would be happy to go into either piano or composition. I might choose whichever one proves to be easier to enter.

And no, I don't have a private teacher. I've been completely self-taught so far.

At most I'll have three years of practice in total, and that's if I decide to take a year off after high school, which a couple of you seem to be against...

Some of you asked for samples of me playing the piano but I'm not sure of what site to use to upload the recordings on. I haven't done this before, so does anyone have recommendations?

Though I have to warn you in advance before I upload something; the equipment I would have to use for recording isn't very good and also at home I only have a digital piano.

Thanks for all of the replies, especially the encouraging ones.

Actually, I would be happy to go into either piano or composition. I might choose whichever one proves to be easier to enter.

And no, I don't have a private teacher. I've been completely self-taught so far.

To put it simple, unless you truly want to compose, you will not enjoy it. Composing is probably the hardest profession in music work-wise because you must have the most knowledge to know well and you must have the creative spark and tallent that can get the music in your head onto paper. So with the mentality of "whichever is easier", you're throwing away tutition money. Composition programs are supposed to be for composers, not pianists wanting to compose. (Though the latter seems all too present nowadays.)

[End rant]

At most I'll have three years of practice in total, and that's if I decide to take a year off after high school, which a couple of you seem to be against...

With only three years, to be frank, you don't stand a chance against anyone in conservatory. That's just the way it is. First-tier, even second-tier conservatories have pianists who have been playing for years since they were 10 (or 2). My advice? If you're truly passionate about music, get into a major state university in your area. Major in music but minor in something practical that you can fall back on in case the piano gig doesn't work out.

Where do you live, BTW? Location makes a big difference in networking, though some might argue that with the advent of the internet, location becomes irrelevant. This is not true. Those corny stories about the starlet from the Midwest coming out to star on Broadway are true. You have to be in a major music center, i.e. New York, Boston, L.A., or maybe Chicago for classical music. If not, get to the closest major city near you.

Some of you asked for samples of me playing the piano but I'm not sure of what site to use to upload the recordings on. I haven't done this before, so does anyone have recommendations?

Though I have to warn you in advance before I upload something; the equipment I would have to use for recording isn't very good and also at home I only have a digital piano.

Upload them to MediaFire.com and then link it here on the website. It's a free upload up to 100Mb I think.

Nowadays, some Digital pianos sound better than real pianos. (They don't play as well though.)

Nowadays, some Digital pianos sound better than real pianos. (They don't play as well though.)

Hmm, somehow I doubt that. You do realise that digital pianos use actual sound samples recorded from real pianos, don't you? For this reason I don't see how a digital could be better than the real thing.

In any case I have a horrible digital piano that is over twenty years old and here is a recording of me playing it. Not one of my best performances, and it was recorded over four months ago (I didn't feel like recording myself just for this thread).

Sample.wma

Just testing to see if it will work... and the sound is very bad, I know. I'll try to record myself on a real piano sometime soon.

Nowadays, some Digital pianos sound better than real pianos. (They don't play as well though.)

What?!?! How? Unless you're playing a piano that is out of tune, then I'd have to strongly disagree!

Well yeah. I'm not putting a Steinway against a Roland. That's why I said some The vast majority of pianos are either too old or out of tune or don't have good action etc.

You're probably right about that, but as you said yourself: "They don't play as well". I find this at least as important as the "sound", if not even more so, since this is what enables a pianist to get the best out of his instrument. A digital piano may produce a wonderful sound, but what use is it if you can't control it in detail? Just some weighted keys and reacting to the general velocity of pressing a key is not enough to give a real feeling of "being in touch with the sound". Maybe we'll get there some time, I don't know.

But I'm not saying you got to have an acoustic grand piano. Digital pianos can certainly be very fine for most purposes.

P.S. I think really old and out of tune pianos have their own charm too. Every piano that is out of tune is out of tune in a different way, which can actually make them quite interesting for improvisation. Just consider how many different intervals you have available on an out-of-tune piano in contrast to a perfectly tuned one! But of course, I do love a well-tuned piano too. :P

To put it simple, unless you truly want to compose, you will not enjoy it. Composing is probably the hardest profession in music work-wise because you must have the most knowledge to know well and you must have the creative spark and tallent that can get the music in your head onto paper. So with the mentality of "whichever is easier", you're throwing away tutition money. Composition programs are supposed to be for composers, not pianists wanting to compose. (Though the latter seems all too present nowadays.)

well, I'm a wannabe, for whatever that's worth...

With only three years, to be frank, you don't stand a chance against anyone in conservatory. That's just the way it is. First-tier, even second-tier conservatories have pianists who have been playing for years since they were 10 (or 2). My advice? If you're truly passionate about music, get into a major state university in your area. Major in music but minor in something practical that you can fall back on in case the piano gig doesn't work out.

What eh's saying has truth to it, but don't minor in a fallback. If you're not sure, double major - its not that hard - I'm doing it. As little as BAs mean, a BA minor means even less, if you're trying to work in that field - we're talking maybe 12 credits at the most for minors, which is barely a semester of work...

Where do you live, BTW? Location makes a big difference in networking, though some might argue that with the advent of the internet, location becomes irrelevant. This is not true. Those corny stories about the starlet from the Midwest coming out to star on Broadway are true. You have to be in a major music center, i.e. New York, Boston, L.A., or maybe Chicago for classical music. If not, get to the closest major city near you.

If you're looking for jazz, New Orleans is a good bet. Loyola has an excellent Jazz performance program, and the Marsalis clan teaches nonstop through colleges in the area (Not Tulane, though; but some of their students come teach)

I thought your piano sample was not bad at all especially if you want to go into composing. I'm not sure if its good enough for piano majors because the ones I know are crazy good.

Did you say you only had 3 years and are self taught without a teacher? If so, your playing is very impressive. I worked very hard with a teacher and don't play as well as you do but its good enough to compose. So why no teacher? I imagine even in high school you probably would have a music teacher. Where are you from and what type of schools are you considering? If you want to do composing, no doubt you've composed already (if one is drawn to compose, they'll write music even if they don't know how or have no training) so lets hear your stuff! If you've not written anything yet, the odds are you aren't interested in composing enough to pursue it as a career. As Justin Tokke mentioned, choosing to compose as a career is full of negative reinforcement, stiff competition, little reward, etc. etc., so it has to be something you would want to (more accurately "need to") do no matter what.

... But of course, I do love a well-tuned piano too. :P

Amen! I once snuck up to a finely tuned piano after a concert and played the opening of Tchaik 1. It was heaven on earth!

the question is...what do you want to do? play for a living? write music? teach music? music therapy? sound recording? there are options and you can definitely do it. Try to figure out your passion.

...Did you say you only had 3 years and are self taught without a teacher?...

...So why no teacher? I imagine even in high school you probably would have a music teacher. Where are you from and what type of schools are you considering? If you want to do composing, no doubt you've composed already (if one is drawn to compose, they'll write music even if they don't know how or have no training) so lets hear your stuff!...

Actually, I said that at most I'll have 3 years of practice when I enter University. Currently I've had just slightly over a year, and it's true that I haven't ever had a teacher. When I made that recording I had been playing for less than one year.

Yes, there is a music teacher at my high school. However he is a jazz band teacher and to learn things from him I would have to play music that I'm not particularly fond of.

I'm from Canada and I haven't looked much into what kind of schools that I would like to go into. Fortunately I live somewhat close to a University that is often said to have the best music programs in the country.

Yes, I've composed already and it's something that I do frequently. There are very few pieces that I've actually finished, though. On my computer I have over a hundred midi files that I composed, most of which are just short themes, others are more developed.

As I've said already, I have little concept of how the American (I assume you're in the States, though I don't recall your having mentioned this) admissions system works.

Judging by what you've said however, and the sample of your performance after a year, I have a few simple pieces of advice. Firstly, find a good piano teacher as quickly as possible. You'll get better far, far faster if you have directed guidance from a skilled tutor.

Secondly, if you were in England I'd advise you to make this late realisation of your love of music a key feature of your application. If you get the chance to write something in connexion with the application, emphasise that you've made great progress in hardly any time at all, and believe that the directed guidance of such-and-such a course would accelerate all the more this flourishing of talent.... or something along those lines.

Bear in mind that not all great composers were childhood geniuses. In fact, to some degree I'd stand by Joseph Schillinger's assertion that 'if you know some young man or woman who, at the age of fifteen, is composing music which is perfect, you can be sure you have a musical corpse before you. And if this still seems paradoxical to you, try to recall that Brahms wrote his first symphony when he was forty.'

... find a good piano teacher as quickly as possible...

...Secondly, if you were in England I'd advise you to make this late realisation of your love of music a key feature of your application. If you get the chance to write something in connexion with the application, emphasise that you've made great progress in hardly any time at all, and believe that the directed guidance of such-and-such a course would accelerate all the more this flourishing of talent.... or something along those lines...

Unfortunately, good piano teachers are rare around here. One of the only piano teachers I met didn't seem very serious about piano technique since he played mostly on keyboards with non-weighted keys and had little interest in classical music. Even if I do find a good piano teacher I'm not sure if my parents would be willing to pay for the lessons.

If what you say is true about music Universities in England and how they judge applicants not just on current abilities but also on budding talent then I might consider leaving Canada to go study in England. This might be a bit unlikely, but if I really do have a better chance at entering University over there then I will think about it.

With a modicum of skill, you can enter into any major US University's music program. Shoot for major music schools, but don't expect much in the way of acceptance.

But you're in Canada - I found applying to Canadian Schools to be very similar to US schools.