NEW FORUM?

[nikolas]

A lot of times I've seen 2 related issues come up, again and again:

1. A performer (or a group) is asking for new compositions. Through a competition (the theremin one springs in mind), or other means

2. Composers asking for performers to play their pieces.

Why on earth can't we make a new forum, which deals with such 'comissions' paid or unpaid? Have the performers make a thread about themselves, with examples, audio or video and have the composers say a bit about themselves, share works etc. And have the thing work in both ways.

Good idea? Bad idea? I was pomprtly ignored when I mentioned it to the following forum (the "commission" thread).

[Nirvana69]

Great idea.

Seconded.

[Camilla]

Thirdeded..ed.ed..ed.... I.. agree

[Dirk Gently]

Fourtheded, that'd be great. Kind of spammy with requests, maybe, but it could still be useful...

[Asparagus Brown]

Sounds like a great idea. It's always a learning experience to have something played, and it's also a nice way for performers to find some new, (hopefully) interesting works to play!

[nikolas]

Regarding spams, etc... I would be most glad to have a hand to THAT forum (or the whole YC if the staff is willing) to moderate things... A VERY hard hand...

In my mind, this idea needs to have a very specific form of requests, not random people going in and posting "Hi, I'm a pianist I want to play something...". Otherwise it simply will be flooded with nonsense...

[Composer283]

So, you DID get around to making this! :D

[Morivou]

Maybe we could make a very detailed form that would have to be completely filled. That would get rid of SOME spammers.

[Daniel]

I agree with Nikolas. It could be moderated a bit like how Major Works is moderated.

[Ferkungamabooboo]

I dunno about the heavy moderation. I've seen some people turned away on this board with cries of "SPAM" because they're new to forums and don't post "correctly." The commissions board would have a number of first time posters looking for new talent (hopefully), so much would seem like spam even though it isn't.

But yeah, I think it's been moved and seconded. Let's vote.

[Morivou]

POLL TIME!!!

[nikolas]

Before we start the poll and the silly stuff (after all, the YC website, name and all belongs to 1 or 2 Mikes, end of story), there should be some solid proposition (to which I'm working on, right now... ;))

Regarding spam, etc. Since it will be dealing with commissions, paid and unpaid, it cannot be polluted by people who can't read a simple instruction thread. Specific form, specific guidelines, specific usage of the forum... ;)

[JonSlaughter]

How bout if any requests are made they are voted on or something like that? Something to keep the spam requests down?

Maybe a top 10 list of requests which are ordered, of course by voting(although maybe not a good idea because of fake accounts... maybe list each persons name by the vote).

Then as performers perform pieces from the top 10 they can be removed from the list and added to a completed list with stat and info about it.

Not sure if this is a good idea or not but just an idea. Problem is you don't want every hobo off the street to come in asking for his work to be performed which is where the voting comes in... but also you want to give some of the untalented people like me a chance to get their work performed ;) (it is a great motivator to know that your work might be performed)

Maybe have a sorta lotto too where a piece is selected at random and put in the top 10.

I think the first step though is figuring out exactly what the purpose of the new forum will serve. Is it simply chatting or more about getting performers and composers together?

[Daniel]

If it's to involve money, then it definitely has to be moderated.

[Ferkungamabooboo]

The money issue shouldn't be a concern of the board... that's external to it, between the poster and respondent. From what you're saying, this is more of a craigslist-styled board where you post:

"Botswana, NM Orchestra seeks gamelan-flavored symphonic poem. Contact : director@bnmso.com"

And then people interested email (PM, IM, call god forbid, whatever) the OP. Right? So where is the need for moderation outside of the standard? In fact, the nature of it would be a bit spammy, so it'd be harder to determine what's bunk and what's not.

[nikolas]

If this thing is to work, there needs to be a tight control over who are asking and advertising, and how they do it! Otherwise it might end as another craiglist, which quite frankly is ugly and awful in every singe way!

Deadlines are highly personal, and should be dealt with each individual case: An ensemble may have a concert on the 1st of May, so they need the scores, by the beginning of March... A composer may have the exams coming up towards the end of June, so he needs the recording by then. And so on...

The "reputation" idea is heavily based on the perception of the moderator (me or anyone really). It's not fair for the mod to judge and stop commissions or advertising due to previous nature of posts, unless it's an 'official' spammer, or in constant disregard of the rules. The mods are there to help run things smoothly and not stop people who might cause trouble.

Then again some kind of penalty to the miss of goals could be made so, but only after a claim from the other party was put through: It's very reasonable for a composer to miss a couple of days and I've had performers quit on me because of personal issues. I didn't crucify them, I just tried to find new performers. It's not the job of the mods, or runners, or even of the community to deal with such issues, unless there is an issue from the hurt party.

[Dev]

I think the dual-forum idea could work, but not for paid vs. unpaid, but for composers vs. commissioners. In one forum, composers post a brief bio or a short list of example works or something, list their speciality(ies) maybe, and in the other forum, people who want new works can post a general request thread ("Need an 8 minute piece for wind band with the following orchestration about trees or expiration dates"). Then, people from either side can venture into the other forum, and if they see something that strikes their fancy - either a composer wanting to write a certain work or a commissioner wanting to employ a certain composer - then PMs are exchanged and the deal is finalized. That way, the paid vs. unpaid (not to mention how much) can be decided on a case-by-case basis, as it really ought to be. Once a job is taken or a composer is busy with several works, they can update their thread to say "job taken" or "composer not currently accepting new works" respectively. For composers their thread can be sort of a personal profile, to let the public see what they are currently working on or somesuch. For the other side of the coin, forumgoers can browse the in-progress jobs already taken and even give suggestions/critique progress. That way, even the commissions forum can be a source of learning, even for those not participating.

Just an idea.

[Spoon284]

I think the dual-forum idea could work, but not for paid vs. unpaid, but for composers vs. commissioners. In one forum, composers post a brief bio or a short list of example works or something, list their speciality(ies) maybe, and in the other forum, people who want new works can post a general request thread ("Need an 8 minute piece for wind band with the following orchestration about trees or expiration dates"). Then, people from either side can venture into the other forum, and if they see something that strikes their fancy - either a composer wanting to write a certain work or a commissioner wanting to employ a certain composer - then PMs are exchanged and the deal is finalized. That way, the paid vs. unpaid (not to mention how much) can be decided on a case-by-case basis, as it really ought to be. Once a job is taken or a composer is busy with several works, they can update their thread to say "job taken" or "composer not currently accepting new works" respectively. For composers their thread can be sort of a personal profile, to let the public see what they are currently working on or somesuch. For the other side of the coin, forumgoers can browse the in-progress jobs already taken and even give suggestions/critique progress. That way, even the commissions forum can be a source of learning, even for those not participating.

Just an idea.

The forum with composers posting a bio and a list of example works doesn't seem necessary. It sounds more like a small extension of the profiles we already have - and if people want to look for example works, they will probably be available on the forum somewhere anyway. I don't think we need anything more than a forum for performers to request works. If a performer wants a work from a specific composer, they can contact them directly.

[Dev]

The composer forum would really just be for ease - to give potential employers one single place to go instead of having to search the whole of YC. Plus, it would only be those composers interested in participating in this commission forum - I feel certain SOME members of this site wouldn't want to participate for one reason or another.

So no, not necessary, but helpful.

[Ferkungamabooboo]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have there ever been people seeking commissions who've stopped on this site and then posted? Is there really a market?

Or would this just be for the current members to have interesting new works fo rtheir recitals?

[Spoon284]

Dev: I see your point, but if you look at the profiles we already have, a lot of them link to personal websites and/or samples of the composer's music. I think the main purpose of a commissions forum would be for performers to ask for new works. It could possibly be also for composers to say "I'm writing a piece for instruments x, y, and z, does anyone want to perform it/know anyone who might want to perform it?". However, this sort of request could incorporated into the thread for the piece itself so it might not be particularly necessary or useful.

EDIT: Am I contradicting myself?

[James H.]

I like Dev's idea, but it's a little too overboard. Two subdivisions would be nice... a small forum section for performers looking for music, and another for composers looking for performances. It would still be hard to do... but maybe one forum would list location, type of performer, and type of work requested and would have entries listed. One might look like

OH, USA - Oberlin New Music Ensemble looking for Greek-inspired minimalist work.

2 violins, 1 viola, cello, flute, vibraphone, ect...

Projected deadline: Jan 31

and on the other forum it could go two ways. Could have each composer post once, kinda like a journal. They'd have their finished works listed, ones interested in being performed that is, and advertise specific requests. Or, could just be one thread per request. It would be nice to be able to filter composers (or pieces) by general style and instrumentation, but I don't know how that could be done here. Say a brass quintet looking for atonal music could browse the forum and look for composers who A) compose atonally B) can compose brass quintet music C) have already composed a work meeting these two criteria.

[Ferkungamabooboo]

They could use the search feature for "atonal" and "brass" in the upload forums. But that assumes the poster knows this site well.