Songwriting and composing in general.

Hello all.

I hope you all had a good Christmas.

I was wondering about pop song writing, elton john/billyjoel type stuff.

I like making chord progressions but they are all the same basically. Same old boring I IV V vi stuff.

I always write the chord sequence first...and then think of a melody.

Would you recommend making the structure first and then adding chords?

I tend to compose very short things at a time, like 2 bars, then 2 more bars, and it just goes on without structure or formality.

Maybe a structure would help me on when to modulate?

I have a baroque "chord tree". It means I can tell what chord I can go to next. Does such a thing exist for pop music? It's like a dummies guide to chord progressions :D

EDIT: Is there a free newsletter or guide somewhere (fairly indepth) about songwriting? thanks...

Pop song writing developed out of tin pan alley, which was a bastardization and codification of rag, blues, and jazz during that time.

Study pre bop jazz and you've got a decent idea. Better yet, study those tinpan alley songs.

On the other hand, really anything goes in pop, so long as it's relatively consonant...

If you're starting with chord progressions, then you should feel free to stray from the same old chord progressions, no?

On the other side a great pop doesn't have to have a difficult chord-progression at all. The most wounderfull pieces have been written on simple progressions.

Have a look at this too: http://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/how-do-you-decide-chord-progression-16886.html

Personally, I feel that starting with a progression is an excellent way to proceed with songwriting. My strongest advice to you, in this area, would be to sit down at the piano, or pick up your guitar, whatever, and work out some chord progressions based on whatever you hear in your head. No, they musn't conform to any particular procedure, but you're free to fine-tune yours based on historic precedent if you choose to :) Chord progressions imitative of the Baroque have been done extensively over the past 40 or so years in pop music, and a lot of it works very well - the songwriters of the 60's were especially fond of aesthetically conjuring their own impression of "baroque" and "classical" sounds, then fusing them with other ideas.

On the other hand, you might choose to go down a route with fewer precedents, but above all - choose the harmonies and progressions you find exciting/expressive, and those you believe will excite your listener. Songwriting is definitely a mode of composition where this objective (listener response) is the square aim, well, the majority of the time - a pretty direct form of communication. ;) That doesn't mean you have to be formulaic, or that you can't build, resolve or diminish harmonic tension, or whatever....But the progression is the foundation of the tune. If you've written a "good" progression, you'll know...as it will feel natural, and act as a guide for the direction of your melody, and finally the overall form of the song. There are plenty of other approaches which popular songwriters regularly employ (melody first, tunes based around a single riff or rythmic motif)...but, if you have the ears and the ability to translate it into a structural underpinning - a chordal approach works as well as any, imo.

Pop song writing developed out of tin pan alley, which was a bastardization and codification of rag, blues, and jazz during that time.

Study pre bop jazz and you've got a decent idea. Better yet, study those tinpan alley songs.

On the other hand, really anything goes in pop, so long as it's relatively consonant...

I totally agree with your assessment of the history of pop music, ferkung...although popular music has come to include rather more influences since then (and in some cases even fewer lol)...Guess it comes down to whether or not 132will is looking to write in the strict definition of pop-genre or is perhaps inclined to try something more experimental/ambitious hehe =) But then again, I'll always be one to encourage people to surrender to their strangest creative impulses ah guess :whistling: