Lesson with Nirvana69 (20th Century Composition Techniques, General Composition)

So, we had already a little chat on the shoutbox, but for the sake of keeping record, why don't you write what I can help you with. You said you wanted to look into modal music, impressionism, and all that early 20th century deal.

Another thing is that you said you wanted me to help you out with your compositions and so on. We can do that first if you want, too.

Well, as I said in the shoutbox, I'm heavily influenced by Debussy and Ravel but don't really feel like I "understand" their harmonic languages exactly. Also, as we discussed in the shoutbox, I clearly don't know what actually constitutes "modal music" so I'd love to start with that. I thought it was simply having a tonal center but not having as much "weight" drawn to it or having any diatonic function.

As far as composition goes, I can show you a few things of mine if you'd like to see. The one in my signature for example is rather Ravel influenced. Perhaps that'd give you a better idea of what I'm looking to learn as well. The main troubles I'm having in composition is "remaining modal" and not getting locked into complete diatonicism. Also, I'm having troubles with development and form in general.

Well, as I said in the shoutbox, I'm heavily influenced by Debussy and Ravel but don't really feel like I "understand" their harmonic languages exactly. Also, as we discussed in the shoutbox, I clearly don't know what actually constitutes "modal music" so I'd love to start with that. I thought it was simply having a tonal center but not having as much "weight" drawn to it or having any diatonic function.

As far as composition goes, I can show you a few things of mine if you'd like to see. The one in my signature for example is rather Ravel influenced. Perhaps that'd give you a better idea of what I'm looking to learn as well. The main troubles I'm having in composition is "remaining modal" and not getting locked into complete diatonicism. Also, I'm having troubles with development and form in general.

Well, first off, when we talk about "modal" music in modern sense, we talk about the usage of modes within a new harmonic sense which can both be function-free and tied to specific characteristics of any given specific mode.

For example, there are characteristics of modes which give them their character like the Dorian's major 6th, or the Mixolydian minor 7th. The catch about modes is not thinking that they are merely different scales, but that they are built from a notion of linear motion to begin with. This is really an important aspect which cannot be overlooked, specially taking into consideration that because the modal way of composing is mostly linear, your harmony is going to be very different than if you started out vertically (chord construction, for example, plays a less significant role and is often just a consequence of voice movement.)

So if you're in Dorian, you want to get that major 6th out there in your melody and motive construction as to outline the character of what you're using (and at the same time distance yourself from what sounds mostly like a minor key sans that 6th.) Likewise, a natural minor key (Aeolian) without the altered 7th (leading note) to adhere to the traditional cadence harmony will have a different sound if you work on emphasizing the absence of that leading note.

Ideally, when you're working with melodies and motives (horizontal thinking) you have to have the same care you have when working with chords (vertical) in that specific intervals contain specific implications. As an example, we can technically call any minor second movement a "leading note," as that's the specific horizontal character of that interval. However, horizontally a minor second instead is a sharp dissonance rather than implying a specific harmonic function or context. Jumps in a melodic line are perceived fundamentally different than the same intervals stacked together, and this difference is what makes using modes a little tricky if you're not aware of that specific traditional baggage.

Logically, once having a specific mode, it is possible to set out to build chords out of it. However, without the implied cadence harmony already present within the scale, extra steps must be taken if you want to retain functionality to your chords and harmonic progression. However, this works differently depending on each mode (think of how we need the 7th alteration in any minor key to allow for cadences, as without it the D chord would be also minor given the minor 3rd.)

And so, different composers have found different ways to work around that. People like Debussy, Honegger, Ravel, Satie, Stravinsky and others from the early 1900s began approaching modal writing as something that couldn't simply be "adapted" to any given tradition, but instead deserved special care by virtue of its characteristics. There we find, then, why preference for function-free harmonies were something desirable, as well as specific constructions which outlined the character of the music itself (like the famous mixture technique in Debussy's work, using parallel 5ths-4ths-8ths constantly.)

Though, clearly, it varies from composer to composer what use they gave modes and how that affected their harmonic conception. By some the linearity was the most important aspect while others tried to couple both things and build their chords in function of a specific "modal character" so to speak.

There are several things which can give you the impression of "modality" without necessarily using a particular mode, such as the avoidance of the leading note, specific melody constructions (often in step motion and small intervals,) etc. These things are manipulated often even when there's no actual mode involved, it's a kind of allusion to the style of old music which used it (chants, etc.)

A good exercise for anyone wanting to learn a little more about modes is to try writing a measure or two of 1-voice melody in a particular mode, paying attention to the characteristic intervals, motive construction, etc. It's a little like playing the anti-tonal game, where you want to sound less like "C major/minor" and more like the actual mode you're using, for instance.

So yeah, that's sort of a general introduction. I'm going to write more on specific techniques employed in the french impressionism later.

Well, first off, when we talk about "modal" music in modern sense, we talk about the usage of modes within a new harmonic sense which can both be function-free and tied to specific characteristics of any given specific mode.

For example, there are characteristics of modes which give them their character like the Dorian's major 6th, or the Mixolydian minor 7th. The catch about modes is not thinking that they are merely different scales, but that they are built from a notion of linear motion to begin with. This is really an important aspect which cannot be overlooked, specially taking into consideration that because the modal way of composing is mostly linear, your harmony is going to be very different than if you started out vertically (chord construction, for example, plays a less significant role and is often just a consequence of voice movement.)

So if you're in Dorian, you want to get that major 6th out there in your melody and motive construction as to outline the character of what you're using (and at the same time distance yourself from what sounds mostly like a minor key sans that 6th.) Likewise, a natural minor key (Aeolian) without the altered 7th (leading note) to adhere to the traditional cadence harmony will have a different sound if you work on emphasizing the absence of that leading note.

Ideally, when you're working with melodies and motives (horizontal thinking) you have to have the same care you have when working with chords (vertical) in that specific intervals contain specific implications. As an example, we can technically call any minor second movement a "leading note," as that's the specific horizontal character of that interval. However, horizontally a minor second instead is a sharp dissonance rather than implying a specific harmonic function or context. Jumps in a melodic line are perceived fundamentally different than the same intervals stacked together, and this difference is what makes using modes a little tricky if you're not aware of that specific traditional baggage.

Logically, once having a specific mode, it is possible to set out to build chords out of it. However, without the implied cadence harmony already present within the scale, extra steps must be taken if you want to retain functionality to your chords and harmonic progression. However, this works differently depending on each mode (think of how we need the 7th alteration in any minor key to allow for cadences, as without it the D chord would be also minor given the minor 3rd.)

And so, different composers have found different ways to work around that. People like Debussy, Honegger, Ravel, Satie, Stravinsky and others from the early 1900s began approaching modal writing as something that couldn't simply be "adapted" to any given tradition, but instead deserved special care by virtue of its characteristics. There we find, then, why preference for function-free harmonies were something desirable, as well as specific constructions which outlined the character of the music itself (like the famous mixture technique in Debussy's work, using parallel 5ths-4ths-8ths constantly.)

Though, clearly, it varies from composer to composer what use they gave modes and how that affected their harmonic conception. By some the linearity was the most important aspect while others tried to couple both things and build their chords in function of a specific "modal character" so to speak.

There are several things which can give you the impression of "modality" without necessarily using a particular mode, such as the avoidance of the leading note, specific melody constructions (often in step motion and small intervals,) etc. These things are manipulated often even when there's no actual mode involved, it's a kind of allusion to the style of old music which used it (chants, etc.)

A good exercise for anyone wanting to learn a little more about modes is to try writing a measure or two of 1-voice melody in a particular mode, paying attention to the characteristic intervals, motive construction, etc. It's a little like playing the anti-tonal game, where you want to sound less like "C major/minor" and more like the actual mode you're using, for instance.

So yeah, that's sort of a general introduction. I'm going to write more on specific techniques employed in the french impressionism later.

So, from what I gathered from this is that modality is often more the result of melodic writing than harmonic? Therefore, harmony in modality is more of a natural consequence determined by the melody? Interesting. That would make more sense with the Impressionist point of view too which was often to focus on horizontal movement and melody as opposed to vertical movement and adhereing to strict harmony rules.

So, should my first assignment simply to be to write small one melodies in each of the modes to better understand each other? To tell the truth, the only modes I can write reliably in are the Dorian and Lydian.

Well it would be an idea, yeah.

Try it out see how you like it.

Well it would be an idea, yeah.

Try it out see how you like it.

Okay. Will do. Should I do Ionian and Aeolian as well or just the five other modes?

Also, I've noticed that in a lot of modal writing, there tends to be greater emphasis placed on parallel fifths and 7th and 9th chords. Is this just a coincedence or do these chords lend better to modal writing? If so, why?

Okay. Will do. Should I do Ionian and Aeolian as well or just the five other modes?

Also, I've noticed that in a lot of modal writing, there tends to be greater emphasis placed on parallel fifths and 7th and 9th chords. Is this just a coincedence or do these chords lend better to modal writing? If so, why?

Yeah, I think doing both Ionian and Aeolian would be nice, trying to get C major to NOT sound like C major is always fun.

Also, the thing with the parallels is that they emulate old practices and thus are closely related in chronology to the usage of modes. Remember that previous to polyphony you had monophony (like Machaut) where the modes were introduced and developed. In a monophony you get parallel 8ths as a result of there being only a single melody line but different voices singing in different ranges all the same. 5ths came later (homophony) and the practice of writing parallels 5th and 8ths was abolished with the coming of polyphony (apparently they got tired of that sound, who knows?)

As for 7ths and 9ths, these are a result of different influences which are not easy to generalize so they are for most part composer/tradition specific. Those dissonances of course were very popular during the late 19th and early 20th century for a variety of reasons.

As for 7ths and 9ths, these are a result of different influences which are not easy to generalize so they are for most part composer/tradition specific. Those dissonances of course were very popular during the late 19th and early 20th century for a variety of reasons.

What sort of reasons?

Also, I finished a melody in each of the modes. Should I post a MIDI or PDF or do you just want to take my word for it?

You also mentioned that we'd start to get into techniques that the French Impressionists used to create their modal sound. What are those? Or am I jumping the gun a bit?

Post'em exercises, I'll cover the other stuff soon.

What sort of reasons?

You also mentioned that we'd start to get into techniques that the French Impressionists used to create their modal sound. What are those? Or am I jumping the gun a bit?

Well, this as a little sidenote, but let's look at the traditional dissonances for a moment.

In baroque context, dissonances also correspond to hard or loud points in the music; they are often a focus of attention. A D7 chord will always be "louder" than the resolution, in baroque tradition.

For that reason, these characteristic dissonances (7ths, 9ths, 4-3 suspensions) have always been "resolved," it fits within the ideal of a phrase having a bow-like structure, the beginning and the ending both being soft while the middle (climax) being louder and more dramatic. This usage of course varies depending on the dissonances, with the french Sixte Ajout

Ahhh, yeah. I had read about Debussy's use of parallel chords before. It's an interesting technique and one I use in my own compositions. I'm rather fond of parallel major 7ths myself.

Sorry for the inactivity on this thread by the way. College and relationship stress and all. =/ By tomorrow, I SHOULD be free though so I'll post my exercises then. Did you want a PDF or just a MIDI?

Both would be dandy, if not just the PDF would do. :>