How to initialize new works ?

I never said I came here hoping bunches of congratulations, and "Ego" is one thing, "Self-Confidence", "Faith in yourself" "Proud of your works" those are different things.

I Repeat, I don't doubt there are good composers here, I just heard the "Somnus Corvidae" by Mr. flint-wwrr and is quiet good, (I would only say that why is that short ? is any more mouvements ?)

I'm sure some of the people in here would find a lot of composition mistakes in scores like "Rite of Spring" if Stravinsky would be alive on this forum, but now he is a great composer, noone dares to say that....

Don't forget some works that you may find not so goog, could become that later.

Ok, it MIGHT be time for you to leave your ego at the door, as Robin said.

The work you posted here is FAR from being anywhere near the caliber of Rite of Spring.

You are most definitely NOT Igor Strawinski.

Your piece is very 2-dimensional. Meaning the orchestration is flat. It lacks depth and texture. There are blaring mistakes of density (like that poor alto flute, which will be doing pure mime through-out because it is constantly going to be drowned out by the rest of the ensemble).

Placing your horns high for an effect is one thing. Placing them CONSISTENTLY too high is an error in judgment on the part of the orchestrator.

I will repeat my recommendation: you seriously need to learn more orchestration before attacking such large-scale works and using such large ensembles.

As to your original question, I can assure you that if you present the music that I just saw of yours to an orchestra, you will be laughed out of the hall. That's not an insult. But it IS what will happen. No orchestra will take the time to learn something that massive from a virtual unknown, and this is even if it were well-written.

Start small. Write chamber pieces. Write instrumental solos. Learn how to handle your forms better, and learn how to handle the instruments themselves, along with density and texture.

In your place, I strongly suggest forgetting about trying to get your large-scale pieces performed. It won't happen. I'm sorry if that sounds negative, but it's the truth and it's the way the business works.

An added note: I suggest you consider the relative age and experience of many of the members on this forum before launching into a tirade about "bad works". This forum is for young composers, many of whom are only 14-16 yrs old. At least they are trying to improve themselves, however. That is an important detail.

LOL

I wasn't trying to compare my work with "The Rite of Spring" ... mine is actually much more easier in every way...

The Horns won't be playing like that all the time of course...

What the Alto Flute is playing ?....did you see something like trying to play a new theme nobody is going to listen ?... the flute is just playing....

I won't be surprised of having an unending discussion here, me defending my work... others finding errors.... like Prokofiev vs Shostakovich arguing about their 5th symphonies... "Mine is better.... no, mine is, yours is wrong orchestrated... look at the begining of of the symphony, the whole string section is playing the same..."

My work will be played some day, you must know that, even If i have to conduct myself.

*invisions conducting of GPO*

and I leave for good! I swearz!

Richard Strauss said that Mahler's works were overorchestrated... and what kind of orchestras does Strauss used....and They both are the best developing the orchestra.

Again...I'm not saying my work is la Mahler or R.Strauss

There are many ways to orchestrate...an there are some orchestras with "unlimited resources" playing modern works very often.

Why does every body says the orchestra is too big... What do you thing about "Varese - Ameriques" and how does he uses all that instruments....

Again....no critics of clear facts...

....arguing about the Horn playing high,,,as you can see the rest in the last page...

.... a Flute playing something nobody will hear....

.... why the horns are in one single staff.....Because I needed space !!!

You thing that's real critics about orchestrations...?

and "real professionals eh"...

Ok, well, I strongly suggest you find yourself another forum, then.

You obviously have no intention of accepting any criticism of your work at all.

Nothing of what I said about your piece is trivial. They are serious problems.

Your insulting tone has certainly reduced my tolerance for your crap. From now on I will be keeping an eye out on your posts and making sure you respect forum rules. That is all. If you require help with anything, I'm sure you will be able to provide your own help.. since you obviously don't want nor accept anyone else'.

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Much-needed ownage.

Why do you get mad QcCowboy ?

does this are not trivial critics ?

....arguing about the Horn playing high,,,as you can see the rest in the last page...

.... a Flute playing something nobody will hear....

.... why the horns are in one single staff.....Because I needed space !!!

I'll leave the forum if you want...but I'm not mad at all, tell me then, what else did you find in my score....something that is really important, and I assure you....I won't write that mistake again ... I do take opinions.....but not those about I mention, something helpful....

^Those are all legitimate issues. Besides a good understanding of the techniques one uses, audiences and performers look for good orchestration.

Ok, the point is that, this work is not BAD. However, it needs serious improvement - for one, you could use some more counterpoint throughout these 9 pages you're showing us. This is not an insult. It is a suggestion. If used well, it will make your piece sound more three-dimensional.

Furthermore, you are perfectly welcome to keep your orchestration and only write works for large ensembles. However, as QcC pointed out, it's very, very unlikely that any orchestra will take the resources to perform such a large piece composed by an unknown. You can build up your reputation with smaller scale chamber works, while at the same time learning to handle larger ones. This is simply a practical matter.

The people giving you advice are here to help, and to help you make yourself a better composer. If these details presented to you are "trivial" then maybe you shouldn't be writing music - detail is imperative in any composition.

You can either learn to accept criticism and lose the hubris over the faceless interface of the web, or by being cut down in person somewhere down the road. I personally think it's easier to learn it here.

I ARE SYS65!

ME HAVE GREAT ORCHESTRATION!

I ARE COMPOSER!

Ok, the “Qmwne235” post sounds to me more honest than others. thanks.....

You all must agree each one of us has his own hay to write and orchestrate…

I will seriously take this advice: I’ll write works for smaller orchestra, and I’ll try to those “smaller” pieces get played before the Op.20 (but I won’t change a single note of that work)

The high notes in the Horn are only 2 bars length, at 120 BMP is 4 seconds…I see no very much problem in that.

Now I want you to read carefully the next:

On this particular passage, in the PDF….

Let’s say we turn that “Large” Orchestra into a “Normal size” Orchestra… we remove 2nd English horn, 2nd Bass Clarinet, 2nd Contrabassoon, 4th Trumpet, 4th Trombone, 2nd Tuba, 2nd Timpani set, …and the Harp If you want….now, what do we have ?...

3 Flutes, 2 Oboes and 1 English Horn, 2 Clarinets and 1 Bass Clarinet, 4 Horns, 3 Trumpets, 3 Trombones, 1 Tuba, Timpani, Percussions, Piano and Strings…That isn’t far beyond a normal orchestra …agree so far ?....ok

Now, What changes do we have, read the score again…on page 68 Bar 374, the 2nd E. Horn we removed is playing the same than cellos, a single E. horn does not sound very much loud and It would be inconsequential change.

The Bass Clarinet and Contrabassoon are playing the same, “a 2” so we only get less power, that’s all.

in Page 70 trumpets are playing C G C G (B F# B F#)…we remove the 4th, we have no very much change in harmony or other matter…The 4th trombone is playing B, G, B, G, we remove it and we’ll have less power nothing more…

A single tuba can play that passage by its own, the removal of the 2nd is not consequential

A single Timpani set can easily manage that passage…

The Harp is just playing B, no very much change

The matter of the “Alto Flute” is perhaps because you think that motif is important and is wrongly assigned to that flute… but is not important to me….

Now…. how many musicians we did remove ? 8, only 8… are you telling me that one orchestra cannot hire 8 extra player for a concert ?... the “limited-recourses” orchestra in my place has done that several times to play “Pini di Roma” and other works…

That’s the big deal ?....

I’ll tell you what would be a “lack of depth and texture”:

-Move the motif played by the Bassoons Timpani Contrabasses etc and put it into the Piccolo, Flute, Oboes and Violins…

-the (4 notes) String part in Page 68 Bar 374 move to the 4 Horn, 4 Trumpets, and 4 Trombones…

-the Flutes and Clarinets parts in page 69 bar 378 move it to the bassoons and contrabassoons… how do you look the pieces now…..? I would accept the laughs of “SOME” people and others critics if I would show you the piece like I just described it… but I didn’t…..

a very few people here have giving me honest advices, I thanks those who really try to help me ….but other just post comments coming from their emotions not from their knowledge, from emotions created on this forum… after all.. who gave them those “titles” … this site ?, an Institution ?... themselves ?....

Ok Ralph I'll take a look of your works...thanks

Ok, the