Lesson with Mark (the JAZZ)

Okay... let's go.

Can you show me that stuff again?

Hello :)

MP3

Score

=)

Okay...

Re: The scraggy.

It's a cool head. Nice, straight-up BLOOOZ. The two-bar pick-up leaves me feeling confused and disoriented... You kind-of plop me in what feels like the middle of a 4-bar phrase when the horns come in, which is in fact the top. It's a strange feeling...

Once the tune settles in though, the riff is cool. I epecially like the off-beats in M11. Hip. [i'd even help it ease back into the riff by chopping off the first 8th in M13, and starting the last phrace on the off-beat... dig?]

Then it gets dodgy with the half-note-triplits. They feel awkward, especially over a 4/4 walking bass, and (presumably) drums swinging in 4. NOW, perhaps with proper players, laying it back (or pushing it...I dunno what I'd do) and phrasing it proper, it might sound awesome. In this case, however, it's a little weird.

Harmonically it's okay...the voicings aren't terribly stable, and it feels unsettled. Not really sure how to explain that, but you stuck pretty close to home (1, 3, 5, 7) ... it's also a little ambiguous as to the actual key...

Blues, in A. Is it a minor blues? On purpose? The bass line sometimes hints at Dominant chords, but it's not really clear to the ears which way it's going. Generally, you kept within the minor blues vibe, but we'll find a way to solidify the sound...

Piano stuff....you'll come along. There's a few clams, but generally it's the feel that's hurting you. You voicing and comping pattern options will expand as you learn ...

FUN STUFF....keep it coming.

Thanks for the commentary :)

I agree about the pick-up sounding a little weird. I first opened a blank finale document and noodled a little in the piano before knowing clearly what was going to happen, and just kept what was there, I suppose. Perhaps a slightly more extensive introduction that doesn't just sound like the anticedent to a four bar phrase would be less jarring. (I'm sounding way too 'classical' here, you need to teach me to speak jazz too ;))

@M13 - I'm digging it.

The half note triplets are quite fucked up, yeah - that was a situation of the melody appearing in my head as I went and me notating it, not thinking about context :D Maybe I should reuse that melody somewhere, I quite like it but it's not terribly appropriate in this idiom.

For voicings (I assume you mean in my piano part) can you recommend any transcriptions for study? Infact, I'll peruse the Mark Levine piano book for some examples. I know you'd generally leave it up to the piano player who'll do a much better job anyway, but I like to have a good understanding of everything, and I don't know any jazz pianists.

As for the tonal ambiguity... is this because I used minor chords for the first 8 bars of the blues and dominant chords for the V IV bitty? That was intentional, it was a bit too upbeat to have all minor chords, I felt, and I liked the sound of it.

Overall, I think I'm pleased with it as a first attempt, but accept there's a hell of a lot wrong with it =)

One more thing I wanted to ask your opinion of was the little solo-y bit, does that work? I was pretty much winging it the whole way, have no idea how to structure a solo or string together ideas.

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I've been playing around with my guitar, some manuscript paper and 'My Funny Valentine', but am finding it pretty difficult to incorperate all of the seperate elements. I might be biting off more than I can chew at the moment.

I'll have a pop at arranging it for four horns and rhythm section. This'll give me a chance to look in more detail at my 'comping, and still try out the line thickening techniques.

Would two trumpets and two trombones be an effective combination? Or should I stick to 4 of the same instrument? I say 2+2 because some of the melody isn't too far above the trumpet's lowest notes, and fitting four part harmony in there could get mushy.

=)

The half note triplets are quite fucked up, yeah - that was a situation of the melody appearing in my head as I went and me notating it, not thinking about context :D Maybe I should reuse that melody somewhere, I quite like it but it's not terribly appropriate in this idiom.

Yah, something about the way the rhythms interact is just awkward...

For voicings (I assume you mean in my piano part) can you recommend any transcriptions for study? Infact, I'll peruse the Mark Levine piano book for some examples. I know you'd generally leave it up to the piano player who'll do a much better job anyway, but I like to have a good understanding of everything, and I don't know any jazz pianists.

Piano, yes...also the way the horns are voiced as well. The notes with which you choose to harmonize can greatly enhance the strength of the harmony....if that makes any sense. It'll help with:

As for the tonal ambiguity... is this because I used minor chords for the first 8 bars of the blues and dominant chords for the V IV bitty? That was intentional, it was a bit too upbeat to have all minor chords, I felt, and I liked the sound of it.

Okay....if the mixture was intentional, that's cool. If we strengthen the harmony to make it a bit clearer it'll work for sure, and probably sound pretty hip.

One more thing I wanted to ask your opinion of was the little solo-y bit, does that work? I was pretty much winging it the whole way, have no idea how to structure a solo or string together ideas.

It works....it's raw, and a bit meandering, but there's hope for you. ;)

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I'll have a pop at arranging it for four horns and rhythm section. This'll give me a chance to look in more detail at my 'comping, and still try out the line thickening techniques.

Would two trumpets and two trombones be an effective combination? Or should I stick to 4 of the same instrument? I say 2+2 because some of the melody isn't too far above the trumpet's lowest notes, and fitting four part harmony in there could get mushy.

=)

Four trumpets sounds weird...they're too high to get any good lush harmony... four trombones sounds gorgeous. Two of each will sound great as well.

Hip.

I've been working on it for a while, just harmonising it for 2+2, it's waaaay harder than traditional harmony :(

Hip.

I've been working on it for a while, just harmonising it for 2+2, it's waaaay harder than traditional harmony :(

Don't over-think it. Keep it simple and relatively basic....don't think of it as different than traditional harmony, it's just expanded a bit.

What are you finding difficult?

Maintaining smooth voice leading, harmnising each melody note without weird sounding chords. I think one of the problems is I'm trying to apply the rules I've learnt for four way close in a context where it's not appropriate.

Should I maybe attack it from a different perspective? Thinking of all non-harmonic tones as dominants of the next chord tone, perhaps?

Here's the version I mentioned in the shoutbox, just trying to harmonise it logically without confusing myself further with other instruments. I know the bassline is so dull it makes you want to cry, but I was concentrating on the harmony ;)

MP3

EDIT: For anyone reading who might be interested a complete arrangment of this for four 'bones, piano and bass can be found on my myspace. :)

Hey :)

Just thought I'd chime in with my progress, let you know I haven't been idle ;)

There's been no more music happening recently, but I've been reading various parts of both Levine books and learning exciting things. I've also been checking out the music of McCoy Tyner (Tender Moments = :O) and Gil Evans and liking much of what I hear. Birth of Cool has also been listened to an awful lot - very hip stuff.

Could we per chance look at some three voice stuff? Seems so much harder than writing in four parts and I'm getting a little lost.

:cool:

Cool.

Three voices is a bit trickier - tough to be hip and still outline the basic harmony. Chapter 3 of the Levine Jazz Piano Book is great for that basic PIANO approach.

BUT, are you wondering about voicing for, say, 3 horns? Where you don't have to concern yourself with the ROOT ... even the 5th is unimportant.

Lemme know, and we'll look at some messingers scraggy!

gently caress!

I hadn't realised you'd replied, scraggy.

I was talking about for three horns, yeah. I really dig the way Miles write for three horns, and would defnitely like to have a closer look at that :)